the new Thor

[Malcolm]

-ette.

[Vince]

What a joke.

[TheCatt]

You know how many good strong female superheroes there are? Not enough.

[Vince]

You know how many good strong female superheroes there are? Not enough.

I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with the notion that there aren't enough mainstream black superheroes either. Oddly, instead of creating a solid female or minority hero and letting them stand or fail on their own, they seem to decide they have to take an established and popular character and change the person under the mask to the desired hero.

And they'll ride that until interest falls off and readership actually goes into decline. Then they bring back white dude and hail the return of who ever.

Part of the problem might be that you have white men writing the minority or female characters. Or that they just suck at making diverse characters. But the problem isn't that Thor is a white guy. Especially since that was already set in Norse mythology.

[Leisher]

You know how many good strong female superheroes there are? Not enough.

Strong female super heroes in the Marvel Universe off the top of my head:
-Captain Marvel
-Ms. Marvel (bonus for also being Muslim)
-Rogue
-Wasp (Founding Avenger)
-Thor (new)
-Invisible Woman
-Kitty Pryde
-Emma Frost
-Jean Grey (arguably THE most important X-person)
-Storm (Leader of the X-Men multiple times)
-Scarlet Witch (Caused the Mutant Extinction)
-X-23 (Clone of Wolverine)
-Black Cat (Spider-Man's "Cat woman")
-Maria Hill (Director of SHIELD)
-Green Haired chick whose name I'm forgetting, but is in charge of Earth's space defense agency
(That's two non-powered human women running the two most powerful agencies on Earth)
-Vindicator (boss of the Canadian super team that has 3-4 other women on it)
-She-Hulk
-Jubilee
-Psylocke (last two are members of an all female X team)
-Rescue (Pepper Potts)
-Dazzler
-Squirrel Girl (Quite possibly the most powerful person in Marvel's universe. It's a big tongue-in-cheek thing, but still...)

And there are dozens more in the X-family alone, and I'm not even getting into the countless female villains.

The important thing to note is that these are not second tier characters. These are all major characters who have turned the course of the Marvel universe, starred in their own series, lead team books, etc.

Yeah, Marvel really needed another female hero... This is a publicity stunt, nothing more.

Thor has actually been a woman before. Both when the guy has been turned into a woman (really) and when other women have taken up the mantle. So this is not a "first". He's also been a cyborg. The best Thor variant is Beta Ray Bill.

By the way, the guy currently called Thor is not dying or going away. He's still around, but will be carrying a large battle axe instead of the hammer. Not sure what his name will be...



Edited By Leisher on 1405449401

[TheCatt]

You know how many good strong female superheroes there are? Not enough.

I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with the notion that there aren't enough mainstream black superheroes either. Oddly, instead of creating a solid female or minority hero and letting them stand or fail on their own, they seem to decide they have to take an established and popular character and change the person under the mask to the desired hero.

And they'll ride that until interest falls off and readership actually goes into decline. Then they bring back white dude and hail the return of who ever.

Part of the problem might be that you have white men writing the minority or female characters. Or that they just suck at making diverse characters. But the problem isn't that Thor is a white guy. Especially since that was already set in Norse mythology.

I don't disagree with you.

We've been showing SheRa to our kids. They love it.

[Vince]

Strong female super heroes in the Marvel Universe off the top of my head:
-Captain Marvel
-Ms. Marvel (bonus for also being Muslim)
-Rogue.
.
.
.

I guess I meant strong more in the sense of "strongly and well written". Though there are a few exceptions in that list, most never gained enough popularity that they've had a movie. Though I think Black Widow may be close if "Lucy" does well.

Though Jean Gray, Storm and She-Hulk are probably the most popular of those listed (at least from my time in reading comics in the 80's through 90's).

I read recently that She-Hulk was only created because they were going to introduce a female She-Hulk on the TV series (or one of it's made-for-tv movie spin offs).

[GORDON]

And on a side note, I would do most of those female superheroes, so there's that.

[Malcolm]

And on a side note, I would do most of those female superheroes, so there's that.

[TheCatt]

Strong female super heroes in the Marvel Universe off the top of my head:
-Captain Marvel
-Ms. Marvel (bonus for also being Muslim)
-Rogue.
.
.
.

I guess I meant strong more in the sense of "strongly and well written". Though there are a few exceptions in that list, most never gained enough popularity that they've had a movie. Though I think Black Widow may be close if "Lucy" does well.

This.

[Malcolm]

Dazzler

Goddamn, I hate that character. Fucking advertising stunt that got out of hand.

Though I think Black Widow may be close if "Lucy" does well.

I'm at the point where I can't take Luc Besson seriously anymore.

Green Haired chick whose name I'm forgetting, but is in charge of Earth's space defense agency

Abigail Brand of S.W.O.R.D.?

[Vince]

Dazzler

Goddamn, I hate that character. Fucking advertising stunt that got out of hand.

The irony is that the product they were supposed to eventually advertise never got advertised for once they realized disco was dead.

[Leisher]

Strong female super heroes in the Marvel Universe off the top of my head:
-Captain Marvel
-Ms. Marvel (bonus for also being Muslim)
-Rogue.
.
.
.

I guess I meant strong more in the sense of "strongly and well written". Though there are a few exceptions in that list, most never gained enough popularity that they've had a movie. Though I think Black Widow may be close if "Lucy" does well.

This.

First, Black Widow will be made no matter what Lucy does unless it bombs off the face of the Earth. Even a minor bomb can be washed away with the confidence Marvel has in its characters.

Onto "strongly and well written", what about making Thor a female do you think will address this issue?

Here's a hint: Thor sucks. His comic has been cancelled a LOT. He's a boring character. That's why they're going to make him interesting by giving him an axe and making him unworthy of wielding the hammer. I'm guessing they're going to make him an anti-hero, ala Wolverine.

So replacing him with a new God of Thunder makes sense. Making it a woman and rolling her out on the View is pretty transparent and marketing horseshit 101, but I'm fine with that. I want strong female role models for my daughters too.

However, that doesn't mean she's going to be written well. Thor is fucking Thor and he's rarely been written well.

My point was that Marvel has a metric fuck ton of super strong female characters, no matter how they came about, and if they're so concerned about female role models and yada yada yada why don't they work harder on the existing characters instead of this publicity stunt?

And hey, here's a thought: They just brought in Angelina from the Spawn universe. Why not assign a good writer to her? Want to focus on a founding Avenger, how about the Wasp? Want to focus on the first fucking family of Marvel, then look no further than Sue Richards. The X-Men have more women than you can shake a stick at! And on and on.

The problem is that no matter how good a writer might be behind a character, you've got to have an audience, and simply put, the ladies aren't reading super hero titles. Indy books? Absolutely. Thor? Not so much. Turning Thor into a chick is their attempt to make their own "big three" (Thor, Captain America, Iron Man) into a match for DC's "big three" (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman).

The problem for Marvel in that respect is that their "big three" is actually well behind their "so ridiculously, massively popular that only Batman can hang with them" duo of Spider-Man and Wolverine. The only place Marvel's "big three" can match those two is in Marvel movies, and hey, I'm sure it's no coincidence that Marvel can't make a movie featuring Wolverine or Spider-Man... (Short sighted decisions.)

I'm just saying that Marvel could have simply retired the hammer for now, moved Thor to his anti-hero role, and elevated someone like Captain Marvel or Storm or Wasp or Angelica (someone who just got major marketing and has been revealed to be Thor's sister even though she's originally from the Spawn universe...but that's for another discussion) into his spot. Plus, how confusing is it going to be with former Thor running around with a new name despite going by Thor for 60 years or so. That's comic years. Fucking forever if you count mythology years...

Last point, if you're going to change one of them, I'm not sure it's wise to change the sex symbol. Kind of defeats the point since you're trying to attract women, right?

By the way, Marvel curb stomps DC when it comes to strong female characters despite Wonder Woman.

Abigail Brand of S.W.O.R.D.?

Yes, thank you.

By the way, Dazzler had a successful solo series in the 80s. She's someone they wisely use sparingly, like they should with Deadpool, but don't. Currently, Bendis has her as a major figure in a storyline with Magneto and Mystique and has revamped the character pissing off a lot of people.



Edited By Leisher on 1405473842

[Malcolm]

Deadpool was killed when Rob Hack-a-saurus Rex did "Cable and Deadpool." Not literally, of course, but goddamn he hurt Deadpool second only to the anal discharges that wrote him for that Wolvie movie.



Edited By Malcolm on 1405476067

[Malcolm]

I bet any movie exec a million dollars that a Mystique spin-off with Jennifer Lawrence would make a quick buck.

[Leisher]

I bet any movie exec a million dollars that a Mystique spin-off with Jennifer Lawrence would make a quick buck.

Now that's an amazing character. Almost a joke in the movies, but just a fucking brilliant bad ass in the comics.

She has a massive hate on for Wolverine too.

[Malcolm]

I bet any movie exec a million dollars that a Mystique spin-off with Jennifer Lawrence would make a quick buck.

Now that's an amazing character. Almost a joke in the movies, but just a fucking brilliant bad ass in the comics.

She has a massive hate on for Wolverine too.

Yeah, like a useful Black Widow. Still, Mystique > Black Widow > Billy Ray Cyrus > Hawkeye.

[Vince]

My point was that Marvel has a metric fuck ton of super strong female characters, no matter how they came about, and if they're so concerned about female role models and yada yada yada why don't they work harder on the existing characters instead of this publicity stunt?

That's an alternative route to my same point.

[Leisher]

My point was that Marvel has a metric fuck ton of super strong female characters, no matter how they came about, and if they're so concerned about female role models and yada yada yada why don't they work harder on the existing characters instead of this publicity stunt?

That's an alternative route to my same point.

No, my point is this new Thor is a stunt. You were saying it's a good thing.

[Vince]

LOL! My very first response to it was "what a joke".