Gay Parents

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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Malcolm wrote:
Her dad committed suicide when se was 5 or so and she consistently dated older men.
I know a girl who's got a living father (not the greatest) and another living stepfather (far better). She pulls the same shit. Women going after older men is not 100% related to not having a father figure growing up.
Never said it was. Being diabetic doesn't mean you eat shit tons of sugar every day. But eating shit tons of sugar every day greatly increases you chances of being diabetic.

I think you've confused what I was saying about the causes.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

90% of the women I've met (perhaps 75% if I'm in a good mood that day) have daddy issues. The reason I have a hard time buying into the gender/psychology theories is that they reek of Sigmund Freud's work. Sigmund was a little too obsessed with sex and his parents and projected that shit into all his work but every psych I've ever met holds him up as the second coming of jeebus.



Edited By Malcolm on 1405113532
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

I'm not even talking about sexual relationships. ALL future relationships are impacted by your relationships with your parents. You first intimate relationship with a man was with your father and with a woman was with your mother.

I've never much studies Freud, but when you say "intimate relationship" most people assume you mean sexual, when that's not really what it means.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

ALL future relationships are impacted by your relationships with your parents.

I'll go with impacted. I'm not going to go with the type and gravity of impact you're suggesting. "Intimate" also means many different things to different people. That's largely determined by your psychological type. Your sensitive area isn't the same as someone else's.




Edited By Malcolm on 1405114453
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

You can't say one produces superior results without also saying the other produces inferior results.

On the contrary, you absolutely can. If you chop off the bottom end of the biological parent quality curve by dropping all the accidentals and unwanteds, you might find that the average remaining biological parents are better than the average adoptive parents. At the same time it is already fairly well established that leaving that bottom segment on biological curve - a segment that is nearly nonexistant on the adoptive curve - results in adoptive being better. Either could be better depending on which segment you are looking at. I don't know of any studies that discount that lower end of the biological curve that doesn't exist on the adoptive curve, but the result I described above is entirely plausible.

tl;dr plain english: Biological parents are likely better than adoptive parents in cases when the child is planned and/or wanted. Sadly there are enough unplanned and/or unwanted children in the world to skew the average to make adoptive better on average. Get mad at the parents that treat their unplanned and/or unwanted children poorly, not at the people doing the study.

My biggest concern is that you might not be allowed to have that conversation without being called names and having people screaming for your firing.

Once homosexuals have the same civil rights as everyone else, that sort of thing will stop. Not too much longer now. Well, it won't stop overnight, as old people tend to have a lot of inertia when it comes to cultural wars. But it will fade and within a generation it will be gone.

Having parental role models of both sexes I think is important.

I can accept that this is probably true in most cases. Will you at least acknowledge that homosexual parents are likely to be better than single mothers/fathers, which have this same problem but also have a deficit of time to care for the child? And are already happening in vast quantities.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

I can accept that this is probably true in most cases.

Just to be a Jeselnik, what if it's a man and a women who are both bisexual?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Me? I think it would be fine. But I also think kids can get by with any number of parents of any genders or orientations that care and dedicate time to being good parents.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

I suppose that's more directed at Vince. Again, just to be a Jeselnik.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince
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Post by Vince »

TPRJones wrote:
My biggest concern is that you might not be allowed to have that conversation without being called names and having people screaming for your firing.
Once homosexuals have the same civil rights as everyone else, that sort of thing will stop. Not too much longer now. Well, it won't stop overnight, as old people tend to have a lot of inertia when it comes to cultural wars. But it will fade and within a generation it will be gone.
That would be nice, but I find it doubtful as long as we're into this weird identity politics. A sportscaster got fired for using the phrase "the chink in his armor" while discussing Jeromy Lin. Mentioning Chicago is racist when talking about the President. The civil rights marches were 50 years ago.

No, I think it's much more about how they wrap their identity up in their sexuality (in this case).

How many Vietnamese boat people came over in the 70's? I never hear them whining and crying about how they weren't treated well, and having worked with Vietnam vets, I can assure you they were greeted with lots of hostility when they got here. I think the difference for them is they just wanted to be Americans that happened to be Vietnamese. They weren't determined to be Vietnamese Americans.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

That would be nice, but I find it doubtful as long as we're into this weird identity politics. A sportscaster got fired for using the phrase "the chink in his armor" while discussing Jeromy Lin. Mentioning Chicago is racist when talking about the President. The civil rights marches were 50 years ago.


1) Weird identity politics? What is this?

2) The dude that wrote the article with the "Chink ..." headline, I assume you're not referring to him. The dude that said it during the commentary got shafted. That's about as stupid as getting pissed at someone using "niggardly," which has happened. Idiocy is a thing, and if you work in a big enough place it's likely at least one of your bosses is an idiot.

3) How the fuck do the Civil Rights marches fit in?

No, I think it's much more about how they wrap their identity up in their sexuality (in this case).

Yeah, fuck forbid fucking plays a large part in determining who you are.

They weren't determined to be Vietnamese Americans.

About a decade ago, there was a techno night at a club where a few of my buddies worked. It was officially called "Power Jam Thursday." Everyone in the know referred to it as "Asian Fight Night" because there was fucking always a fight. The Vietnamese were just as clique-happy as the Filipinos, the Cambodians, the Chinese, the Hmong, ad nauseum. I'm failing to see how this analogy plays out since there's no country of gay people from which homosexuals can emigrate.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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Post by GORDON »

Yeah there is, The People's Republic of San Francisco.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Malcolm wrote:
I can accept that this is probably true in most cases.
Just to be a Jeselnik, what if it's a man and a women who are both bisexual?
As long as they were in a monogamous relationship, then I don't see how it'd matter. And yes, I think a monogamous relationship part is important, too.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
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Post by GORDON »

This topic crossed my mind today whilst riding roller coasters.

There is no biological component AT ALL in raising well rounded children? Doesn't factor into it at all?
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

There is no biological component AT ALL in raising well rounded children? Doesn't factor into it at all?

Biology's a big thing. What specific thing do you have in mind?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

I don't know. The subtle things. A child looking up at his dad and watches him shave is, I think, getting a whole lot of subtle cues about masculinity. Not just how to shave... he can watch one of his 2 adoptive lesbian moms shave her pits, after all. But watching his father shave... his progenitor... seeing that it is ok to be a man, a natural thing. If nothing else, someone who will tell him privately one day, "Women are fucking crazy, son. Beware." All kinds of facets of that same gem.

I don't know. Just speculation, and none of you accept any kind of speculation in these conversations so it doesn't matter.




Edited By GORDON on 1405308824
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Anybody who actively seeks to adopt is probably more responsible than the average parent.
Any irresponsible schmuck can make a baby. Adoption takes effort, and you have to pass the interviews.

When I hear that kids who eat breakfast and/or play a musical instrument do better in school I think they should be saying, "Kids who have parents who care enough to make their kids ear breakfast and/pr play a musical instrument have parents that also make sure they do well in school." No duh!

That being said, men and women tend to bring different things to the table and kids learn by example.
Having responsible male and female role models goes a long way.
I didn't learn to shave from my father, but I learned how to be a man (responsibility) from his example.

When a young man doesn't have a responsible male role model to look up to he seeks them out, which is why so many young men get into gangs.
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Post by GORDON »

You are about to be told that boys can learn responsibility from their lesbian parents so your observation is moot. But not by me. I am just making the call.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

If nothing else, someone who will tell him privately one day, "Women are fucking crazy, son. Beware."

I've heard both gay and straight women say that nearly verbatim.

...seeing that it is ok to be a man, a natural thing.

Huh? None but the most militant feminazis would claim otherwise. Now you only have to get a universal consensus on the definition of "a man" and you're set.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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Post by GORDON »

Malcolm wrote:
...seeing that it is ok to be a man, a natural thing.
Huh? None but the most militant feminazis would claim otherwise.
You need to observe what has been going on in pop culture and the schools or at least the last 10 years.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

GORDON wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
...seeing that it is ok to be a man, a natural thing.
Huh? None but the most militant feminazis would claim otherwise.
You need to observe what has been going on in pop culture and the schools or at least the last 10 years.
Put forth your definition of "a man."
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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