Schools teaching "gender fluidity."

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:15 pm

But the last few years I am being treated like a "cis scum" enemy because.... I'm not even sure why.

This has affected your every day life in what way? Are the trans folk standing outside your door and picketing?

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:29 pm

No, but I am having a lot of anger directed toward me on the internet.

Your experience online is not unique. It's not even uncommon. For every trait about you (or anyone else), out there online is a group of people dedicated to hating you for that trait.

Welcome to the internet, the place where regardless of who you are there is some place out there where you can be thoroughly hated.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:35 pm

I acknowledge that. I also acknowledge that I don't like that aspect of humanity. If I say that people should be nice to the gender fluid I am a good guy, but if I say that everyone should be nice to everyone, including cis scum, then I am problematic and such hate speech shouldn't be tolerated.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:45 pm

And I'd wager I can find people making the exact opposite statement as well.

If you point is that some people are shitty then I whole-heartedly agree. If your point is that white males are now being treated worse then others online I disagree.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:55 pm

Every day on the internet I see another reason why internet anonymity should be stripped away.

Back to the original post, I wonder what the school board means by "no such thing as 100% girl or 100% boy." I would seriously like to see their arguments and metrics for basing an entirely new class based on that statement.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:02 pm

First you'd have to define the words "girl" and "boy" in a way that you can get the majority of people to agree with. If you stick with just penis or no penis the percentage of people who don't fit into those right is fairly small, but our society clearly has a LOT more assumptions about gender than penis or no penis. For example if you add in boy = beard and girl = tits it gets messier. But if you start to get into pink = girls or science = boys or whatever then it gets a hell of a lot messier.

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Post by **GORDON** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:04 pm

TPRJones wrote:First you'd have to define the words "girl" and "boy" in a way that you can get the majority of people to agree with. If you stick with just penis or no penis there percentage of people who don't fit right is small. But if you start to get into pink = girls or science = boys or whatever then it gets a hell of a lot messier.

Exactly right. That's why I'd like to see their "mission statement" or whatever it is on which schools base specific courses of study. They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they? "No such thing as 100% girls or 100% boys" is a bold statement, and I want to see what they are basing it on.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:11 pm

They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they?

I can tell you from working in the educational industry that, no, most of the time there's no specific agreement already in place on the details like that. Sometimes some people involved have their own ideas on those details but haven't really hashed it out with the other people involved yet. Most of the people involved most of the time, though, are just pulling it out of their ass as they go.

Post by **Vince** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:22 pm

TPRJones wrote:EDIT: And I've included sexual orientation in the last couple of posts just because it's generally related and also more common. But transgender kids have it much worse on average. Just a few years ago a transgender teen is over 12 times more likely to end up homeless and living on the streets sucking cock for sandwiches because their parents didn't understand than someone who is merely gay. They were 16 times more likely to commit suicide to escape the mistreatment they get from the part of society that thinks it's a "disorder". So even if it is a disorder - a point I do not surrender - clearly the way the disorder was treated in the past was NOT a treatment.

Things are getting better. Now transgender kids are only 10 times more likely to suicide and 8 times more likely to be kicked out by their family and become homeless. Yay for acceptance!

I wondered why you were lumping them together.

Studies show that suicide rates are the same for both pre and post op transsexuals. So obviously having the body they relate to (or rather, thought they related to before they transitioned) isn't helping them.

But I was specific to gender identity because I don't know how it's moral to tell half a class that they're going to have to suck it up and be uncomfortable with an opposite sex person in their bathroom as opposed to telling the ONE person to suck it up because they can't make half the class uncomfortable to accommodate them.

Or you could fix the issue entirely by letting the gender confused kids use the faculty bathroom. Let these whacko loons accommodate them and see how long this continues to be an issue.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:39 pm

Vince wrote:Studies show that suicide rates are the same for both pre and post op transsexuals. So obviously having the body they relate to (or rather, thought they related to before they transitioned) isn't helping them.

If that higher suicide rate is due to how society treats them then this is not surprising. Only those that can completely "pass" with no suspicion based on their hands being too big or having an adam apple or a deep voice can get accepted. Those that aren't perfect still the same negative treatment by society as before, even post-op.

Or you could fix the issue entirely by letting the gender confused kids use the faculty bathroom.

I don't think telling them they're so unwanted that they can't even use the facilities with the other kids isn't going to make them better. Just worse.

If bathrooms are your concern, then build all the bathrooms to be used by one person at a time and make them genderless. That's the only solution that will let people be what they are without forcing some other kid to see something they don't want to. Shit, I didn't want to see all that cock in the locker room in high school, but no one asked me.

Post by **Vince** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:10 pm

TPRJones wrote: Shit, I didn't want to see all that cock in the locker room in high school, but no one asked me.

EXACTLY! It's called life. I'm not talking about the bullying and physical abuse here. Just the crap you have to do that you may not be 100% comfortable with.

And for the record, that's why I was A-OK with being a band geek. No swinging cocks involved in that class.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:13 pm

So it shouldn't matter what locker room or bathroom they use, then. Might as well let them use the one they want.

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Post by **GORDON** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:19 pm

Personally, I see myself as 100% boy. I have a wiener, and I want to put it into a lot of the cooters I see. I want nothing to do with other wieners, ever. I sort of feel like I am missing out on not wanting to play with other wieners, because as Oberyn Martell put it, I am missing out on half the pleasure of the world. But I am who I am, and they don't have a pill to change it, yet.

Am I abnormal, because those people say no one is 100% boy? Should I feel bad about it? Will I be hazed because I don't want to play with other wieners?

Obviously the previous paragraph is sarcastic, as it applies to a grown-ass man, but my son is growing up in this new world, and while I am sorry the pendulum has been on one side of its arc for a long time now, and no one should get shit for their sexual preferences or identities, I don't want him getting abused when the pendulum swings hard the other way. If he is told he is abnormal because he only likes girls, I am going to have a problem with that.

Which is why I want to know what their metrics are when they make such a statement.

Post by **Vince** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:31 pm

TPRJones wrote:So it shouldn't matter what locker room or bathroom they use, then. Might as well let them use the one they want.

So for the sake of the one in 1000 (if the gender confused is that high a number) half the rest should suck it up so that one's feelings aren't hurt?

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:44 pm

No, as long as everyone is already sucking it up anyway lets let the kids most in danger of suicide have a break.

Post by **Vince** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:58 pm

If we apply that rule of thumb to every reason people give for committing suicide we're going to be living in an even more confused and fucked up world.

If a person commits suicide, you're dealing with a mental illness. Depression along with whatever else is going on there. A mentally healthy person doesn't intentionally kill themselves no matter how bad their lives are (see Joseph Merrick). Catering to the mentally ill is not going to make for a better world.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon May 18, 2015 6:22 pm

Fair enough.

Just don't mistake transgender suicide as some sort of proof that being transgender is a mental problem. It's much more likely that the suicide is directly related to the societal reaction to being transgender coupled with the young ages of those that are most frequently persecuted for it.

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Post by **Vince** » Mon May 18, 2015 6:48 pm

Heheh... don't worry, I think the suicide is an entirely different mental problem

Seriously, I don't know what causes someone to be transgender, but it presents the same way a number of other nonreality based delusional ailments present, so that's why I look in that direction.

I think it's the humane thing to do to make them as comfortable as you can while not doing so at the expense of anyone else. But at the same time let's not just say "oh, they were born with the wrong body" and be done with it. Don't let political correctness do to this what the Catholic Church did to astronomy back in the day.

I just think doctors in 100 years are going to look back and say, "Did it never occur to you to look under the sheet and think maybe it's not the body but the brain?"

You may be right and I may be wrong, but no one is served by ignoring the question. Well, no one that's actually suffering is served, let me put it that way.

When I was getting sober, the hardest and scariest part was questioning everything I thought to be true about myself. As I tore down layer after layer I started to fear there would be nothing left by the time I was done. It's natural.

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Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:01 pm

TPRJones wrote:
They pretty much have to know what they are teaching ahead of time before they start teaching it, don't they?

I can tell you from working in the educational industry that, no, most of the time there's no specific agreement already in place on the details like that. Sometimes some people involved have their own ideas on those details but haven't really hashed it out with the other people involved yet. Most of the people involved most of the time, though, are just pulling it out of their ass as they go.

No, most teachers only have to stay a few pages in the book ahead of the students. Even that's unusual dedication.

Personally, I see myself as 100% boy. I have a wiener, and I want to put it into a lot of the cooters I see.

100% "boy" or "girl" is a clumsy way to state things. "Male" and "female" would be better. The proper way would be "heterosexual" and "homosexual."

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Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon May 18, 2015 8:08 pm

When I was getting sober, the hardest and scariest part was questioning everything I thought to be true about myself.

This isn't about cleaning a chemical out of your system or psyche.

... but it presents the same way a number of other nonreality based delusional ailments present, so that's why I look in that direction.

People who think they can communicate with higher powers (i.e. pray) exhibit symptoms of schizophrenia.

I just think doctors in 100 years are going to look back and say, "Did it never occur to you to look under the sheet and think maybe it's not the body but the brain?"

So, what's the right way to be born? If someone suddenly turns gay after some massive head trauma, sure, I'd look in that direction ... though, I've never heard of anything remotely like that happening.