lied about coming under fire in Iraq.
They post his apology in full, and it seems fine.
However, keep reading the article and see how far he took the lie. I'm not sure that apology was enough. It seems like he glossed over most of the bullshit he was spewing.
Brian Williams
He probably honestly remembered it that way. He wasn't trained for combat and memory is almost never a reliable thing in stressed situations without careful preparation.
It's why eye witness testimony is often crap.
Edited By TPRJones on 1423111766
It's why eye witness testimony is often crap.
Edited By TPRJones on 1423111766
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I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. Scared shitless in a combat zone, more than likely with his sleep pattern screwed up because of the trip over there. I could maybe see something getting jumbled in his head like that. I have enough doubt that it's intentional to give him a pass this time.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
I completely disagree with you guys.
His helicopter came along the same route an hour later. He had nothing to do with the wounded copter that was shot, but never crashed.
He didn't crash land. He wasn't protected on the ground until help could arrive. All horseshit.
This isn't Morton Downey Jr. lying about a visit to the troops. This is a journalist reporting a lie as if it actually occurred. I don't understand why you're giving him a pass? Because he can occasionally make a joke?
What he's doing is along the lines of stolen valor.
I'm not saying he can't be forgiven, but I think that apology sucks.
His helicopter came along the same route an hour later. He had nothing to do with the wounded copter that was shot, but never crashed.
He didn't crash land. He wasn't protected on the ground until help could arrive. All horseshit.
This isn't Morton Downey Jr. lying about a visit to the troops. This is a journalist reporting a lie as if it actually occurred. I don't understand why you're giving him a pass? Because he can occasionally make a joke?
What he's doing is along the lines of stolen valor.
I'm not saying he can't be forgiven, but I think that apology sucks.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
I'm kind of with Catt. I don't think you're wrong for not believing his story. I wouldn't even go as far as to say that *I* believe him. But I can't say that I am confident that he's lying, either (I don't care about any jokes or appearances on late night TV shows that I don't watch). The brain is a strange thing.
I remember reading a story about a writer that believed for years that a movie he'd watched at the theater as a young teenager was filmed in his home town. He "remembered" seeing the cast and crew about town when they weren't filming. He'd told stories about it for years. He eventually mentioned it in a conversation with a family member and they looked at him like he was crazy and broke the news to him that no movie was ever filmed in their home town. He was so convinced of his false memories that he had to go research where the movie actually had been filmed.
So I don't know. It obviously didn't happen to him. Did he intentionally lie? Or did a combination of things he'd seen and felt and lack of sleep cross his wiring and make him really believe it happened to him? I don't feel like this is the sort of intentional behavior that would be a one-off. If other stories start to emerge showing he has a pattern of this sort of thing, I'll revise my opinion, I'm sure.
Edited By Vince on 1423146661
I remember reading a story about a writer that believed for years that a movie he'd watched at the theater as a young teenager was filmed in his home town. He "remembered" seeing the cast and crew about town when they weren't filming. He'd told stories about it for years. He eventually mentioned it in a conversation with a family member and they looked at him like he was crazy and broke the news to him that no movie was ever filmed in their home town. He was so convinced of his false memories that he had to go research where the movie actually had been filmed.
So I don't know. It obviously didn't happen to him. Did he intentionally lie? Or did a combination of things he'd seen and felt and lack of sleep cross his wiring and make him really believe it happened to him? I don't feel like this is the sort of intentional behavior that would be a one-off. If other stories start to emerge showing he has a pattern of this sort of thing, I'll revise my opinion, I'm sure.
Edited By Vince on 1423146661
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Leisher wrote:His helicopter came along an hour later...
An hour later? Okay, then I take back what I said. I thought it said he was in the same convoy.
Memory is a mess. But that's stretching things. Ultimately this is probably the result of some messed up memory combining with a couple of slightly tall tales told over a beer that eventually solidified into a story that just wasn't true. I doubt this is something he did intentionally.
But it is a good example of why "but I was there" doesn't always count for all that much when it comes to news stories.
Edited By TPRJones on 1423148171
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That may be part of why I'm not too worked up about it as well. Not only do I not watch, he's just not much of a driving force on the news cycle or opinions. Anchors are mostly talking heads. They aren't much in control of the agenda of what's presented.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
False memories are plantable.
I've known a lot of people who've truly believed things that are not true. For instance, about 12 years ago, I was in a creative writing group. I came up with a phrase, inspired by another friend of mine, and used it in one of my stories. One of the other people in the group loved it. Fast forward several years, and on her Facebook profile, she has the quote, attributed to herself. I don't think she's lying, I think she genuinely believes she came up with it.
Maybe Brian knew at the time, maybe things got confused, maybe he started with a little lie then believed it. Who knows? I'm glad he came out and apologized, instead of lying and denying.
I've known a lot of people who've truly believed things that are not true. For instance, about 12 years ago, I was in a creative writing group. I came up with a phrase, inspired by another friend of mine, and used it in one of my stories. One of the other people in the group loved it. Fast forward several years, and on her Facebook profile, she has the quote, attributed to herself. I don't think she's lying, I think she genuinely believes she came up with it.
Maybe Brian knew at the time, maybe things got confused, maybe he started with a little lie then believed it. Who knows? I'm glad he came out and apologized, instead of lying and denying.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Reynolds told the newspaper that Williams and the NBC cameramen arrived in a helicopter 30 to 60 minutes after his damaged Chinook made a rolling landing at an Iraqi airfield and skidded off the runway into the desert.
Funny how every time that article gets updated that little factoid keeps getting moved farther and farther towards the bottom.
(Also, the original article specifically said 60.)
Some funny tweets and memes about Williams' story.
If he was in that convoy, I'd be ok with his brain mashing him into that copter. I'd wonder about the RPG grazing someone's head, the soldier that defended Williams with his life, the crash landing, and then the hot crash site defended by more soldiers until reinforcements arrived...but...you know...
However, he landed 30-60 minutes later and had nothing to do with that copter. A fact HE REPORTED on his show March 26, 2003!!!!
And how convenient that his brain wiped its fog clean the moment someone called him on the lie. It's like how Hollywood portrays amnesia.
Personally, I think he never intended it to get this far, but someone put him into that chopper and he ran with it. He continued adding to the story.
And despite none of us watching him, this IS a big deal.
He might only be the public face of the news, but he wields a lot of power in that role. We've seen other folks use this role to try and manipulate the news to fit their own agenda, like Dan Rather.
We always shit all over the MSM for lying, for stretching truths, for twisting stories to fit narratives they want to tell, so why would this not be a big deal?
And again, I've really got no issue with the actual lie. I think he wasn't stealing valor, so much as just trying to get some of its smell on him. I think my issue is with how shitty his apology is and how it reeks of an attempt to deflect blame.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
The more I read the more I wonder how this story went on as long as it did. Even if I give Williams the benefit of doubt, did no one else in his crew that was there say, "Umm... I think you might be having a memory issue on this."
And why did the other military respond only now?
Just really weird all the way round.
Edited By Vince on 1423154315
And why did the other military respond only now?
Just really weird all the way round.
Edited By Vince on 1423154315
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
See, I think that's an important question. Why did so many people allow this guy to lie, intentional or not, for so long?
Were they mocking him? Was it fear? Did NBC help push this story for ratings? Or was it apathy?
Were they mocking him? Was it fear? Did NBC help push this story for ratings? Or was it apathy?
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
The story gets more confusing
Rich Krell, who was piloting the Chinook that Williams was on, tells a different story than the crew members who spoke to Stars and Stripes.
"Some of things he's said are not true. But some of the things they're saying against him are not true either," said Krell, who spoke exclusively to CNN on Thursday morning.
Krell explained that, contrary to Williams' comments in the past, there were three helicopters flying in close formation, not four.
"One of the birds broke down, so we were a flight of three," Krell said. "We were hauling metal bridges."
Williams was in the back of Krell's aircraft along with three other NBC staffers. Krell referred to his Chinook as the "second bird" in the formation. The "first bird," right in front of the "second bird," was struck by the RPG.
Due to his seat in the back, Williams was most likely unable to witness the RPG attack, Krell said.
All three of the helicopters were hit by small arms fire, Krell said, supporting Williams' past claims about that.
"The bridge expansions we were hauling took most of the hits," Krell said.
The three Chinooks took evasive maneuvers. Krell's helicopter dropped off its payload, then met up with the other two about 45 minutes later. That may explain why the other crew members told Stars and Stripes that Williams arrived in the area later.
Krell said of Williams, "Yeah, he messed up some things and said some things he shouldn't have. I [first] heard it a few years ago. ... Actually one of my flight engineers said, 'Did you hear him say that? Wasn't he on our bird?'"
Krell didn't seem overly bothered by Williams' revisionist history -- he chalked it up to wartime theatrics. "After a while, with combat stories, you just go 'Whatever,'" he said.
It's not me, it's someone else.
That makes more sense. It explains some of Williams' confused memories better. And I'll trust the helo pilot above the rest of the witnesses because he's trained to deal with in-air emergencies so is most likely to remember what happened more clearly than any of the passengers, military or not.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
I agree that the pilot's account would make Williams' apology far more fitting and I'd forgive him for his mistake.
I still think it's a bit light considering how he embellished it, but I'll allow him that with the belief that he did so to score tail.
I still think it's a bit light considering how he embellished it, but I'll allow him that with the belief that he did so to score tail.
“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
