Do I smell?

[Cakedaddy]

First Troy invites me back to Eve.
Then he leaves, and we lose Deklien.
I leave town for a week.
Troy is now active on this board and playing TF2.

It seems, where ever I am, Troy is not. Or, where ever I am not, Troy is. Or something like that.

[TPRJones]

Well, come play TF2. See if the trend continues. It's the only way to be sure.

[Troy]

Ha,

Well, I fought for Dek in the early parts, FCed a lot, and got pretty unbelievably bored with the tediousness of it all.

Eve just stopped being fun, I didn't want to log on.

Then I noticed there were all these new things on TF2, and I started playing that instead.

Come play

[Leisher]

Eve just stopped being fun

That would imply it was at some point.

Then I noticed there were all these new things on TF2, and I started playing that instead.

I would rather watch videos of people playing TF2, than actually play Eve. Seriously.

[GORDON]

Yeah. I've actually done that, recently. Watched videos of people playing TF2.

[Cakedaddy]

Eve just stopped being fun

That would imply it was at some point.

Then I noticed there were all these new things on TF2, and I started playing that instead.

I would rather watch videos of people playing TF2, than actually play Eve. Seriously.

You only played about 10% of Eve, so your view is a bit lacking.

Large fleet battles are mega fun. Hooking up with a good roaming gang in a target rich area is fun as well.

Your experience with Eve = someone who's only experience with TF2 is waiting for the map to start. In other words, you never really played the game. You only participated in the part of the game where you're gearing up to really play the game.

[Leisher]

You only played about 10% of Eve, so your view is a bit lacking.

I logged on, bought a ship, trained, flew it around a couple of solar systems, got PKed, did some PvP, ran missions for the AI, did some trading, etc.

What did I miss?

Large fleet battles are mega fun. Hooking up with a good roaming gang in a target rich area is fun as well.

Even watching videos of those activities was/is beyond boring. Picture any space battle from any movie and Eve's battles were as far from that as possible.

Your experience with Eve = someone who's only experience with TF2 is waiting for the map to start. In other words, you never really played the game. You only participated in the part of the game where you're gearing up to really play the game.

That's a terrible analogy. Someone who just watches the loading screen in TF2 never actually plays at all.

I actually played Eve as I pointed out above. I wasn't just sitting at a loading screen, although the training system in Eve might as well have been a loading screen.

I did everything listed above. If it's in the game, then IT IS THE GAME. And since all that "setup" as you call it is so meaningless and not fun , again as you point out, then doesn't that prove my point about Eve?

Who the hell wants to sit through all that boring shit to get to the "fun"?

Getting kicked in the balls 100 times might take a person to a state of euphoria, but I don't want to take those kicks to find out. You apparently do.

[TPRJones]

Maybe a better analogy would be that you played throught the 60 second setup phase of TF2, but didn't make it all the way to mission start.

Who the hell wants to sit through all that boring shit to get to the "fun"?

Every game has that sort of thing, it's just a question of how long it lasts. TF2 lasts at most 60 seconds. Eve lasts a couple of months.

I know which one I like better.

[TheCatt]

My problem with TF2 is that I don't have any sense of building something. I'm a builder/planner/thinker kind of gamer. TF2 is: do something, die, spawn, do something, die, spawn, rinse, repeat.

[Cakedaddy]

TPR got what I meant. Where you look at each other through the fence waiting to start. You are playing the game at that point. It's not fun.

My point is you are judging the game based on the VERY small part you played. Have you ever been jump bridged by a titan into a large fleet engagement in another system? Did you have a hostile fleet hot dropped onto your camp and had to react? Have you ever been in a gang of about 40 frigates and attacked a stronger superior fleet scoring about 30 kills in a 4 minute time span and only losing 3 ships? (Troy led that one "We're probably going to die, but 'jump jump jump'") Eve is a HUGE game. And you played such a small part of it. For you to judge it by the little bit you experienced is dumb. The most you can say is "Missions are boring and so is training." You didn't do anything else in the game.



And I agree with Catt's review of FPS games. Spam kills, die, hit space, repeat. The fact that there are objectives in TF2 (CS and others) makes them playable. And why QW sucked.



Edited By Cakedaddy on 1219682872

[Cakedaddy]

Oh, and by the way, now that I'm back and active here, did I just read that Troy is now on a 'beach vacation'? Coincidence?

[TPRJones]

Perhaps you are his Clark Kent?

[GORDON]

My problem with TF2 is that I don't have any sense of building something. I'm a builder/planner/thinker kind of gamer. TF2 is: do something, die, spawn, do something, die, spawn, rinse, repeat.

Then you should be an engineer. A good forward engie base can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

[GORDON]

And I agree with Catt's review of FPS games. Spam kills, die, hit space, repeat. The fact that there are objectives in TF2 (CS and others) makes them playable. And why QW sucked.

Now THAT is a stupid comment. Every QW map has several objectives and requires at least as much teamwork as TF2 does, and there is a lot more complexity to the play. I'm surprised how much TF2 has been boiled down to the most basic components.... the only thing that takes the game away from the most basic "your side vs. my side" is the inclusion of the Spy class. Everything else has been removed from TFC. Since you expect Leisher to not have an opinion about Eve because he didn't play "enough" of it, or whatever, then you are not allowed to have an opinion about QW for the same reason.

And for the record, I don't know if you smell, or not. That would require you to have been around lately.

[TheCatt]

My problem with TF2 is that I don't have any sense of building something. I'm a builder/planner/thinker kind of gamer. TF2 is: do something, die, spawn, do something, die, spawn, rinse, repeat.

Then you should be an engineer. A good forward engie base can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

I was an engineer a few times.

I'd get a few kills with the gun, then either die while trying to hide (cuz apparently when you die, all your shit goes too?) or have a spy come up and blow the thing up.

TF2 is a lot like rock, scissors, paper.

[GORDON]

Nope, when you die your shit doesn't automatically die. However, if you get killed while guarding your gear, they are probably going to destroy your gear, too.

Engie is my 4th most-played class.... and I think my max kills with the SG is 6. In my opinion, even more important than the sentry gun is good placement of teleporters. Takes forever to get back to the front as a heavy, and that allows the enemy to push forward faster.

A tip is to build a dispenser and an SG gun together (Not ALWAYS the best plan, but sometimes) and then the dispenser can heal your minor wounds while you swing your wrench repairing your SG.

[Leisher]

TPR got what I meant. Where you look at each other through the fence waiting to start. You are playing the game at that point. It's not fun.

I got what you meant, that's why I didn't say 1 kick to the balls. I made it a stupidly high number. Thinking about it, I should have gone to 1000 since 60 seconds = 1 kick doesn't scale well with a few months (at least) = 100 kicks.

Anyway, therein lies my question for you and Eve's development team: Shouldn't it be a lot more fun a lot sooner?

60 seconds for setup in TF2 is unavoidable. You have to give time for engineers to setup, medics to charge, people to strategize, peep on what you think the enemy team is doing, etc. Some people actually enjoy those moments. I mean, why play an engineer if you don't enjoy building?

I also understand that a few months of similar setup in Eve is also unavoidable, but a few months of absolute boredom is a hard thing to overcome, particularly when you're paying for it.

At least in TF2, I'm interacting with other people. We all goof off with our weapons and taunts, talk about previous rounds, make jokes about Cakedaddy sightings like you're Bigfoot, etc.

And don't tell me similar stuff is going on in Eve. Sure, there is some newbie babysitting, but mostly the play experience is one of boredom and solitude. Forums and such don't count because they're not in game.

On top of that, Eve just sucked, but we've been over this in other threads.

You can call it my personal perspective, that's fine and most likely right, so stop trying to convert me. I played it for a few months and didn't find it to be interesting or fun. That's not my fault. That's Eve's developers' fault for not making the game more interesting, fun, or accessible.

I mean, why are they still under UO numbers in terms of users? If the game is so much fun, why aren't they at WoW or even Everquest numbers?

And understand, maybe it's a ball after months of prepping, but why do I want to sit through months of boredom, and certainly unable to compete with those who have been playing Eve forever, just to get to the point where I still might think it sucks? You sat through all that to get to "the fun", but that doesn't mean I'll feel the same.

I was quite bored by everything in Eve. From the art to the training to the missions to space travel to managing inventories, etc. All the AI missions were exactly the same, which sucked. Most of the items had the same artwork with really minor differences so there was a lot of research trying to figure out what was better and what wasn't. There was a point when I felt like an accountant.

If I need to fill my multi player space battle needs, I can fire up Homeworld and play Gordon. No setup required and no monthly fees, plus it's a fun, great game.

All that being said, no game is for everyone. I tried Eve, I will never go back. It did nothing to make me want to stay. Apparently, I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Just like I don't expect TF2 to be everyone's cup of tea. Using Catt as an example, he seems to like RTSs or games like Civilization. Perhaps if TF2 had kept the "Commander" element, he'd be good at it and enjoy it, but they didn't, so oh well.

So for you to keep trying to shove Eve down my throat like I was the one who had the problem not it, the game that requires you to play for months before you have any fun, is dumb.

And FYI: I've jumped my pyro off cliffs into a group of 6 blues, including 2 heavy/medic combos. I've circle strafed a level 3 sentry and killed it without an uber. As an engineer, I've survived a point blank uber with my sentry gun intact. I've been the top dog on the FNF server a handful of rounds.

All those things I could have done on day 1, let alone day 543.

[Leisher]

I'd get a few kills with the gun, then either die while trying to hide (cuz apparently when you die, all your shit goes too?) or have a spy come up and blow the thing up.

Why are you hiding?

Engie is my 3rd most played class, actually it might be my second. My largest number of kills with a single sentry is 11. However, I've had zero a lot and not just because the gun gets blown up prior to me using it. Sometimes, you build in a place that the enemy never seems to make it to. In those cases you can either go offensive and.or move your sentry forward.

The engineer is the most valuable class in the game. The key is getting to be good at it. Learn where to drop your teleporter entrances and exits. Learn where to setup sentries to make them most effective. The engineer is the key to holding any point. That sentry gun has to hold off waves when the rest of the defending team is dead or elsewhere.

As Gordon states, I like to build my sentry gun out of direct range fire, but aimed towards the enemy. I'll then put my dispenser right behind me, so I'm between it and the SG. That also puts the SG between enemy fire and me. I then crouch down and wait for the action. As the enemy hits my SG, I hit it with a wrench.

Some engies make sure that thet are on top of a metal and health spawn when doing the same thing.

I actually have a theory about a certain combination of engies and medics being able to hold an area indefinitely. Although, it might also require a single pyro.

[GORDON]

I there were enough of us on, and on the same team, it would be easy to do some "advance" tactics like a heavy, pyro, and medic covering 2 engineers way forward into hostile territory. Once a dual-engie base is established with guns, dispensers, and teleporters, we stay and guard it and tell the rest of the team to just keep flooding in.

Would be killer in a "Capture the Flag" map where the objective is always in the same place. We'd be dug in like ticks and they'd always have their base flooded with our people.

[Leisher]

We should test that some night if we could get folks on.

Our location would vary by map, and we wouldn't be totally invincible, but I think two engies focusing on one turret, with the second as backup with two dispensers feeding them metal, a medic healing them, and a pyro to blow away demo bombs and possibly rockets, would be tough to displace.

P.S. The next time we play Steel, which I assume could be tonight after the kiddies are asleep (although keep in mind that one of these nights I'm going to take a night off to catch up on Burn Notice), listen to what I say during the setup period and vocally agree with me. I've got something I want to try. In fact, if you have FRAPS, you might want to get it ready...



Edited By Leisher on 1219689161