Where to begin?
Oblivion is the 4th game in the Elder Scroll series, but don't let that turn you off. You don't need to know anything about the series to enjoy the game.
Oblivion is an RPG set in the third or first person view. Personally, I found the first person view much easier for navigating and fighting.
The storyline for Oblivion is that you are a prisoner who happens to be in a cell that has the emporer's escape tunnel in it. He is fleeing from an assassination attempt, and you tag along seeking freedom. Along the way, you learn that he seems to know something about you. He is struck down and you are tasking with searching for an heir. Meanwhile, an alternate dimension called Oblivion is currently beginning to invade your world and with the death of the emporer nothing can stop it.
That is the jist of the main quest. However, the main quest is about 10% of the game. The other 90% is made up of quests for the fighter's guild, mage's guild, theives guild, misc. quests, private citizens, quests for merchants and rulers, and some other organizations I will not name so as not to spoil it for anyone. In these quests lie the real beauty of Oblivion. Sure, there are the standard fetch this or kill him, but not only are there different types of missions, but the ways you complete the standard ones will be unique. Plus, you don't have to solve any quest a specific way. There are different ways to solve different quests. Not to mention that your playstyle will change the way you do things. You can kill your way through a quest or sneak through it. Use swords or a bow. Use magic or conjure things to fight for you.
There are more side quests here than any other game I've ever played and I've played them all. The numerous options here make the Grand Theft Auto series look strictly linear in their gameplay. (An exaggeration, but you get my point.) I have a cousin who has played the first two missions of the main quest and then gone off on side missions. He hasn't really "finished" any side mission plot line yet he has 50 hours into the game.
I completed 2 major side quest plots (many individual quests) and the main quest and came in at 150 hours played. I would estimate that there are still dozens of missions left for me out there and dozens upon dozens of places I haven't been. So much stuff is
You are going to get your money's worth in Oblivion.
Also keep in mind that this is still well before user created content and expansions from the developer are even out yet which will add more hours of gameplay.
Before I get to gameplay, let me hit the tech stuff.
The graphics are gorgeous. Each town has its own unique layout and architecture. Some of the dungeon crawls can start to "be the same" after a while, but you have to forgive the developers for that since the game world is so big. In fact, you will have moments where you'll get a good view of the game world and you will be really impressed (if your machine can handle it). In those moments, one can't help but stop and look around. The weather effects are outstanding as well.
The sound is also top notch with the exception of the voice acting. You will recognize enemies from the sounds that they make and noise is a big factor in the game if you're a thief. The voiceacting is a problem because a lot of lines are delivered by the same voice despite being said by different people, sometimes of different races, and sometimes by someone whose main lines are said in a different voice.
Technically, despite everyone talking about how buggy it'll be when it first hits shelves the game was shockingly stable. I saw a few bugs here and there including: one money exploit, a few goofy AI moments, and a few other minor things, but overall the game works out of the box.
As for the game play, it is as damn near perfect as an RPG can get. Keep in mind that this is from a guy who prefers RPGs that have top down views and are turn based. Everything is handled perfectly from your moments to the way you fight to how spells are cast, etc. Life in this world has cool little touches like your swords and armor taking damage, magic stuff needing to be recharged, the way you can create new weapons and armor, the fact that you can pick your own regeants while out in the wild, etc.
And then there's character management which is very well done. You get 10 skills as major skills that determine when you jump levels and minor skills (all the other skills) that also affect your level jumps. A hint: Don't go up a level just because you can. Boost your skills as much as possible. When you boost a skill, you get better. When you boost a level you get a few more hit points and attribute points, but the monsters get tougher.
So how do you increase your skills? By doing them. Want to increase your armorer skill? Work on armor. To increase Block, block some attacks. What a concept huh? It's perfect. Your skills climb as you explore the world and live in it exactly as they should. You won't fire up the ladder by trying to cheat the system either. Standing and blocking while some monster hits you will get you killed as you still take damage. You have to explore to get armor that isn't in perfect condition. You get the point.
Oblivion is as close to a perfect game as I've seen. If Oblivion was a MMO and they added some more crafting and PvPer elements, it would be as popular as EQ or WOW and as good as UO.
I could go on and on and on with this review. Let me just point out that there are hoardes of reviews of this game online and in print and they ALL give it a huge thumbs up.
I cannot recommend a game higher than this one. If you like RPGs, you have no excuse to not run out and get it. (Many are as it's shattering sales records.)
9.7 out of 10. (.3 off for the minor but not game crashing bugs, and I didn't love the ending of the main quest.)
Yes, Oblivion is really that good.
If you need any advice on character creation or are stuck somewhere in game, feel free to ask if you want help.
Oblivion - The Review
This game surprises me. The combat system is poorly implemented. Not talking about the engine, but the graphics involved. You can customize your character to the nth degree, but they're always ugly.
It's kind of neat at first that every container can be opened until you've opened 783 of them in the first 30 minutes in the city only to finds mountains of usless crap.
Despite all the shortcomings of the game, the world is the most engrossing I've ever seen in a game. You're completely pulled into it, which I believe is what makes this game so great.
It's kind of neat at first that every container can be opened until you've opened 783 of them in the first 30 minutes in the city only to finds mountains of usless crap.
Despite all the shortcomings of the game, the world is the most engrossing I've ever seen in a game. You're completely pulled into it, which I believe is what makes this game so great.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
This game surprises me. The combat system is poorly implemented. Not talking about the engine, but the graphics involved. You can customize your character to the nth degree, but they're always ugly.
I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to combat, but as far as everyone being ugly, this is a "medevil" setting. Despite what you may have learned from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, you probably won't see a lot of hotties running around.
It's kind of neat at first that every container can be opened until you've opened 783 of them in the first 30 minutes in the city only to finds mountains of usless crap.
Exactly what Alhazad said. You don't expect there to be a +12 sword of ass whooping in a crate laying by the market that you can find within the first 30 minutes of playing the game do you?
It IS more realistic that they will be junk in crates laying in public and assorted good stuff and junk in the crates within people's homes.
Try leaving the city and searching crates and chests in dungeons. Something tells me they'll contain items that are a bit more to your liking...
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Bogus, dude.I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to combat, but as far as everyone being ugly, this is a "medevil" setting. Despite what you may have learned from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, you probably won't see a lot of hotties running around.
It's not me, it's someone else.
There's just something really odd about how all the characters look. I think it's the model they have under the skins or something. I fiddled with the controls for a while and you always end up looking like someone's ripped the meat and skin off of a human head and stuck a cantelope up it. There's something unnatural under the surface. I've seen some really ugly characters in games that were beautifully modelled. These aren't.I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to combat, but as far as everyone being ugly, this is a "medevil" setting. Despite what you may have learned from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, you probably won't see a lot of hotties running around.
Exactly what Alhazad said. You don't expect there to be a +12 sword of ass whooping in a crate laying by the market that you can find within the first 30 minutes of playing the game do you?
Not at all. I just don't see the point in making everything openable and filling 2/3's of them with items that are not only unsellable, but also unusable for any part of the game.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the game. I just don't think it's "perfect".
Speaking of imperfections, why do they keep including an unplayable 3rd party view in these games? You'd think they'd either abandon it or fix it.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Must have missed Vince's post.
The characters are ugly, true. A minor problem though.
Because it's supposed to be a living world. Not everything in the world is going to be specific to your quest or be a magic sword. I like the idea of "other" items being found all over. I mean, how dumb is it for containers to be around that you can't open or only to have items in it that are useful to you? Should a farmer really have a treasure chest with a +1 sword and 100 gold? No.
I thought it was perfect that you could go through all the crates on the dock or in the market, but you wouldn't find anything really special. For that you had to go into dungeons or become a good thief. That's how it should be.
I know it wasn't perfect, but it was a damn fine effort. There's lots more to improve upon and expand. They'll get there at some point, but for now, Oblivion is it when you talk about RPGs.
There's just something really odd about how all the characters look. I think it's the model they have under the skins or something. I fiddled with the controls for a while and you always end up looking like someone's ripped the meat and skin off of a human head and stuck a cantelope up it. There's something unnatural under the surface. I've seen some really ugly characters in games that were beautifully modelled. These aren't.
The characters are ugly, true. A minor problem though.
Not at all. I just don't see the point in making everything openable and filling 2/3's of them with items that are not only unsellable, but also unusable for any part of the game.
Because it's supposed to be a living world. Not everything in the world is going to be specific to your quest or be a magic sword. I like the idea of "other" items being found all over. I mean, how dumb is it for containers to be around that you can't open or only to have items in it that are useful to you? Should a farmer really have a treasure chest with a +1 sword and 100 gold? No.
I thought it was perfect that you could go through all the crates on the dock or in the market, but you wouldn't find anything really special. For that you had to go into dungeons or become a good thief. That's how it should be.
Don't get me wrong, I really like the game. I just don't think it's "perfect".
I know it wasn't perfect, but it was a damn fine effort. There's lots more to improve upon and expand. They'll get there at some point, but for now, Oblivion is it when you talk about RPGs.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Okay, after having played it quite a bit more my thoughts have changed a bit.
I got used to all the containers being openable. That was all it took was some time. I was too used to Neverwinter Nights.
On the "ugly characters". They aren't ugly. They're "dead". I will use Neverwinter Nights as my basis of comparison since I've played that game and its expansion packs on and off since it came out. I just never shelved it "for good".
In NWN, the characters had some "character" to them. I think it was partly due to the emotes they were able to perform. They'd do their gestures or whatever at appropriate times and it just made them seem more alive. Even though they weren't as detailed as the charaters in Oblivion, they seemed more alive.
My other complaints aren't so much Oblivion specific as it is when you compare open RPG's with the more linear story RPG's. People complain when stories are too linear, and I can agree with that to a large degree. But when you have a story too open you start to run into some of the problems that I saw in Oblivion. How to scale combat?
Oblivion had some creatures that you wouldn't encounter until you were a higher level. But for the most part you'd see the same creatures over and over, they'd just be more powerful. I fought a goblin at 3rd or 4th level and they seemed to be what I'd expect a goblin to be (from a D&D background). Then I fought Goblins again around 18th or 19th level and they were roided up or something. It completely pulled me out of the little bit of immersion that the game had built up.
One of the nice things about the more linear story with the multiple side quests is that you can have feeling of building the character. You get to a boss level and he hands you your ass because he's much more powerful than your character is at present and I think, Holy shit. I better run a few side quests and see if I can't grab another level or two and come back to this guy.
With the open game like Oblivion, the combat is pretty static from level to level. The opponents are pretty much the same, just scaled up in power to match you. There were some exceptions in Oblivion. I liked how I'd absolutely CRUSH the wolves after I'd levelled up quite a bit. It was fun to see their corpses fly further and further as I became higher and higher in level.
But the down side was that the longer I played the more the entire game started to feel like one huge dungeon crawl. I made it mostly through the Fighter's Guild quests, completely through the Mage's guild's quests, and far enough into the main story quest that I was closing Oblivion gates to gather help from surrounding cities. Around that point I quit. I've lost any desire to finish it. And to be honest, I stopped caring about the story line a lot earlier.
So I have to respectfully disagree that Oblivion is it when it comes to RPG's. To me the RPG keeps you interested not only in character advancement, but also STORY advancement.
This had my attention initially on the story and with the side quests' stories, but soon it just ran out of steam.
I think Bioware has done a much better job with some of their titles. Sure, they're much more linear than I'd like, but after each quest I'm interested to see where the plot goes next. I had that with the first Knights of The Old Republic and the expansion packs in NWN (granted the OC in NWN's was pretty weak). NWN2 has done a very solid job so far with its story line. I'm probably between 2/3's and 3/4's of the way through with it and I'm excited about playing though it again with different character classes.
But that's just what I look for in this type of game. It's about the immersion.
I got used to all the containers being openable. That was all it took was some time. I was too used to Neverwinter Nights.
On the "ugly characters". They aren't ugly. They're "dead". I will use Neverwinter Nights as my basis of comparison since I've played that game and its expansion packs on and off since it came out. I just never shelved it "for good".
In NWN, the characters had some "character" to them. I think it was partly due to the emotes they were able to perform. They'd do their gestures or whatever at appropriate times and it just made them seem more alive. Even though they weren't as detailed as the charaters in Oblivion, they seemed more alive.
My other complaints aren't so much Oblivion specific as it is when you compare open RPG's with the more linear story RPG's. People complain when stories are too linear, and I can agree with that to a large degree. But when you have a story too open you start to run into some of the problems that I saw in Oblivion. How to scale combat?
Oblivion had some creatures that you wouldn't encounter until you were a higher level. But for the most part you'd see the same creatures over and over, they'd just be more powerful. I fought a goblin at 3rd or 4th level and they seemed to be what I'd expect a goblin to be (from a D&D background). Then I fought Goblins again around 18th or 19th level and they were roided up or something. It completely pulled me out of the little bit of immersion that the game had built up.
One of the nice things about the more linear story with the multiple side quests is that you can have feeling of building the character. You get to a boss level and he hands you your ass because he's much more powerful than your character is at present and I think, Holy shit. I better run a few side quests and see if I can't grab another level or two and come back to this guy.
With the open game like Oblivion, the combat is pretty static from level to level. The opponents are pretty much the same, just scaled up in power to match you. There were some exceptions in Oblivion. I liked how I'd absolutely CRUSH the wolves after I'd levelled up quite a bit. It was fun to see their corpses fly further and further as I became higher and higher in level.
But the down side was that the longer I played the more the entire game started to feel like one huge dungeon crawl. I made it mostly through the Fighter's Guild quests, completely through the Mage's guild's quests, and far enough into the main story quest that I was closing Oblivion gates to gather help from surrounding cities. Around that point I quit. I've lost any desire to finish it. And to be honest, I stopped caring about the story line a lot earlier.
So I have to respectfully disagree that Oblivion is it when it comes to RPG's. To me the RPG keeps you interested not only in character advancement, but also STORY advancement.
This had my attention initially on the story and with the side quests' stories, but soon it just ran out of steam.
I think Bioware has done a much better job with some of their titles. Sure, they're much more linear than I'd like, but after each quest I'm interested to see where the plot goes next. I had that with the first Knights of The Old Republic and the expansion packs in NWN (granted the OC in NWN's was pretty weak). NWN2 has done a very solid job so far with its story line. I'm probably between 2/3's and 3/4's of the way through with it and I'm excited about playing though it again with different character classes.
But that's just what I look for in this type of game. It's about the immersion.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
I do gotta back V up on this character skin shit. I was rather underwhelmed. The texture mapping wasn't anything I couldn't've done in my Computer Graphics I class.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I think Bioware has done a much better job with some of their titles. Sure, they're much more linear than I'd like, but after each quest I'm interested to see where the plot goes next. I had that with the first Knights of The Old Republic and the expansion packs in NWN (granted the OC in NWN's was pretty weak). NWN2 has done a very solid job so far with its story line. I'm probably between 2/3's and 3/4's of the way through with it and I'm excited about playing though it again with different character classes.
I almost miss Bioware collaborating w\ Black Isle & EA. Cos they had all the fucking cash to throw at shit that they wanted. Then I think if all the shit EA has pulled since its Bard's Tale/Wasteland heyday. Holy fuck, where are my modern day sequels to those two things? I feel cheated!
Help!!! Help!!! I'm being OPPRESSED!!!
Edited By Malcolm on 1164698427
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Responding to Vince's last post (I figured I'd save space by not quoting the whole thing)...
You made a couple of good points and a couple of contradictory points.
First, I'll give you that the characters in Oblivion were created with an ugly model. So we can drop that issue.
Now let's talk about "dead characters". You really had me sold on Oblivion's characters being dead, and then you went and mentioned KotOR as an example of a better game. Uh, no.
I loved KotOR and it's sequel, but let's be honest, they were so linear that you might as well have been watching a movie. Sure, there were side quests, but they were a joke. Every planet had a limited amount of quests and about three locations...small locations. None of the quests varied much at all. And you want to talk about "dead characters"? Imagine a PLANET with 30 residents, the majority of whom stand in one spot and say the same thing over and over no matter how many times you talk to them.
No, KotOR worked because of two critical elements, but we'll get to those in a minute.
Let's move onto the combat, which you claimed becomes static in Oblivion. How does that differ from all other RPGs? I'm sorry, but your example doesn't work. KotOR and KotOR 2 came with a lot of force power, KotOR 2 even came with different lightsaber techniques, all were worthless. Throughout every fight, you only really needed 1 or 2 powers, that's it. Going further, the NPCs in your party were about as worthless as they come. Sure, they might help you in 1-2 fights in the game, but really in both games my guy was an unstoppable jedi tank. Sure, I might hit one enemy who surprised me, but a quick reload would solve that problem, not a long journey to level up through side quests.
NWN might fit what you described with the side quest journeys a bit more, but it's still a linear game with static characters and static fights. ALL RPGs can be broken down as a "static" game under the hood.
Hell, even NWN doesn't fit depending on your playstyle. Rush through it and you'll hit fights you can't win until you level up. However, take your time and do all the side quests and you won't really hit fights you can't win. In fact, you'll be steamrolling people as the game goes along. That's how I play. I like to see all the different stories and side quests so by the time I get back on the story path, the fights there present little challenge.
That is the key here and really where each game sets itself apart. However, I submit to you that immersion is more based on the player rather than the game itself.
You might love KotOR more than other games because it's set in the Star Wars universe and is Sci-Fi, not D&D. You might like NWN more because it's a Bioware game. You also might like them more because they're in 3rd person view or 3rd person iso view, not in the FPS view that Oblivion uses.
That brings me to the two critical elements I mentioned early: Story and Setting.
I've preached for years (ask Gordo and Cake) about how important setting is for someone's enjoyment of a game.
If you don't like Star Wars, you're probably not going to like KotOR. Think the Roman empire was a snore? Age of Empires is probably not for you.
Setting doesn't just cover the "era" or "theme" though, it can also cover other preferences.
For example, if it has "EA" on it anywhere, Cakedaddy hates it. Put "normal or modern" units in an RTS and I'm bound to like it more. Stamp "Valve" on it and it'll get a lot more respect from the general public. Ditto for "Blizzard". Distribute it through Steam and some people will give it a try when they wouldn't have before and others will never try it. Make the view FPS and many will hate it. Make the view 3rd person iso and many will claim it's fake.
So immersion levels vary based on a player's own willingness to be immersed in a certain game which is based on many factors.
Beyond that, the story is the most critical part of any game. RPGs lately have sucked in this area. KotOR had a good story, but KotOR 2's story SUCKED (mainly towards the end). NWN's story was cliche and standard. So was Oblivion's.
You want a good story in an RPG lately and you have to go back to FFVII or Skies of Arcadia.
So what's my point? Well, I'm just saying that Oblivion is the standard right now because of the leaps they took in making the game. Oblivion is closer to a living, breathing world than anything else. The story line is open, and granted the technology isn't perfect, but they are making strides. Besides, no game can ever truly be open unless it doesn't have an ending or a plot. Eventually, the developer has to take you from point A to point B and that makes it linear.
I could discuss game design all day.
Bard's Tale was the shit (and not linear). You know there is a new version out, but it's about a Bard and it's more humor based. I've heard it's decent, but not at all like the original games.
As for Wasteland, a sequel is loooooooong overdue. Some say Fallout was the spiritual sequel. You can still find Wasteland out on the web for free.
You made a couple of good points and a couple of contradictory points.
First, I'll give you that the characters in Oblivion were created with an ugly model. So we can drop that issue.
Now let's talk about "dead characters". You really had me sold on Oblivion's characters being dead, and then you went and mentioned KotOR as an example of a better game. Uh, no.
I loved KotOR and it's sequel, but let's be honest, they were so linear that you might as well have been watching a movie. Sure, there were side quests, but they were a joke. Every planet had a limited amount of quests and about three locations...small locations. None of the quests varied much at all. And you want to talk about "dead characters"? Imagine a PLANET with 30 residents, the majority of whom stand in one spot and say the same thing over and over no matter how many times you talk to them.
No, KotOR worked because of two critical elements, but we'll get to those in a minute.
Let's move onto the combat, which you claimed becomes static in Oblivion. How does that differ from all other RPGs? I'm sorry, but your example doesn't work. KotOR and KotOR 2 came with a lot of force power, KotOR 2 even came with different lightsaber techniques, all were worthless. Throughout every fight, you only really needed 1 or 2 powers, that's it. Going further, the NPCs in your party were about as worthless as they come. Sure, they might help you in 1-2 fights in the game, but really in both games my guy was an unstoppable jedi tank. Sure, I might hit one enemy who surprised me, but a quick reload would solve that problem, not a long journey to level up through side quests.
NWN might fit what you described with the side quest journeys a bit more, but it's still a linear game with static characters and static fights. ALL RPGs can be broken down as a "static" game under the hood.
Hell, even NWN doesn't fit depending on your playstyle. Rush through it and you'll hit fights you can't win until you level up. However, take your time and do all the side quests and you won't really hit fights you can't win. In fact, you'll be steamrolling people as the game goes along. That's how I play. I like to see all the different stories and side quests so by the time I get back on the story path, the fights there present little challenge.
It's about the immersion.
That is the key here and really where each game sets itself apart. However, I submit to you that immersion is more based on the player rather than the game itself.
You might love KotOR more than other games because it's set in the Star Wars universe and is Sci-Fi, not D&D. You might like NWN more because it's a Bioware game. You also might like them more because they're in 3rd person view or 3rd person iso view, not in the FPS view that Oblivion uses.
That brings me to the two critical elements I mentioned early: Story and Setting.
I've preached for years (ask Gordo and Cake) about how important setting is for someone's enjoyment of a game.
If you don't like Star Wars, you're probably not going to like KotOR. Think the Roman empire was a snore? Age of Empires is probably not for you.
Setting doesn't just cover the "era" or "theme" though, it can also cover other preferences.
For example, if it has "EA" on it anywhere, Cakedaddy hates it. Put "normal or modern" units in an RTS and I'm bound to like it more. Stamp "Valve" on it and it'll get a lot more respect from the general public. Ditto for "Blizzard". Distribute it through Steam and some people will give it a try when they wouldn't have before and others will never try it. Make the view FPS and many will hate it. Make the view 3rd person iso and many will claim it's fake.
So immersion levels vary based on a player's own willingness to be immersed in a certain game which is based on many factors.
Beyond that, the story is the most critical part of any game. RPGs lately have sucked in this area. KotOR had a good story, but KotOR 2's story SUCKED (mainly towards the end). NWN's story was cliche and standard. So was Oblivion's.
You want a good story in an RPG lately and you have to go back to FFVII or Skies of Arcadia.
So what's my point? Well, I'm just saying that Oblivion is the standard right now because of the leaps they took in making the game. Oblivion is closer to a living, breathing world than anything else. The story line is open, and granted the technology isn't perfect, but they are making strides. Besides, no game can ever truly be open unless it doesn't have an ending or a plot. Eventually, the developer has to take you from point A to point B and that makes it linear.
I could discuss game design all day.
I almost miss Bioware collaborating w\ Black Isle & EA. Cos they had all the fucking cash to throw at shit that they wanted. Then I think if all the shit EA has pulled since its Bard's Tale/Wasteland heyday. Holy fuck, where are my modern day sequels to those two things? I feel cheated!
Bard's Tale was the shit (and not linear). You know there is a new version out, but it's about a Bard and it's more humor based. I've heard it's decent, but not at all like the original games.
As for Wasteland, a sequel is loooooooong overdue. Some say Fallout was the spiritual sequel. You can still find Wasteland out on the web for free.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. Yes, KotOR was very linear. However, you ended up with characters that were fleshed out. KotOR had some big problems, but developing the characters wasn't one of them. The story and cast was interesting enough that I played it through twice.Leisher wrote:Now let's talk about "dead characters". You really had me sold on Oblivion's characters being dead, and then you went and mentioned KotOR as an example of a better game. Uh, no.
Not so much as Oblivion vs KotOR (or any other Bioware titles), but more along the lines of linear vs. open. It's just the nature of the beast. The more linear the story, the easier it is to develop characters that have some personality. They interact with you and others in a certain way because the "story writers" know pretty much how the lay of the land within the game will be when you reach that particular point in the game.
Yes, it was pretty much like watching a movie, but that's exactly how you end up immersed in the story and caring about the characters. Compare watching a movie to watching random webcams. It's easier to immerse the player in the more linear story than the more open story. You may not be as immeresed in the world as you would be with more freedom, but in the story you are (more immersed).
So that's where I end up looking at games and trying to figure out how you can have a happy medium. How can you feel like you have the freedom to do whatever you want within the game and still keep the game interesting? How can you create a game in a non-linear environment and still have the player feel like they matter within the game?
And how can you have a battle system set up where you feel like you're fighting more powerful enemies as you level up without feeling like you're just fighting the same beasts over and over with the only difference being their HP, damage, and AC?
Oblivion is a beautiful game, but unable to hold my interest long enough that I'd even finish it, much less play through it a second time. I don't consider it a waste of money.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Storytelling AI. What's needed ultimately is an AI complex enough to do the job of a Dungeon Master in a P&P RPG, that can work within a world to tell a story that grows and changes based on what the player does, sometime to such an extent that it has to rewrite whole sections in the background if you surprise it by doing things the developers never imagined.Vince wrote:How can you create a game in a non-linear environment and still have the player feel like they matter within the game?
It'll be a bit longer before it's feasable, but that's what you really need to keep that balance.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Emphasis mine. FFVII? What the goddamned hell? You wanna talk cliches, that mofo has them all.Leisher wrote:You want a good story in an RPG lately and you have to go back to FFVII or Skies of Arcadia.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
It's a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong -ass way down the road. Developers have a hard enough time trying to master the technology we got right now. Or is the upswing in the "release now, patch later" trend just my imagination?TPRJones wrote:It'll be a bit longer before it's feasable, but that's what you really need to keep that balance.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Well, it won't come from developers today, that's for sure. They're stuck on all the wrong features to be able to concieve of a DM AI. The engines behind Spore show some promise along these lines, if you could adapt it's understanding of fictional biologies and processes to use similar adaption skills on plots and character's lines. But, yeah, right now it's a bit of a stretch to say the least.
Most likely advances along these lines will come from outside the caming industry first - most probably from the decendents of today's news portals that are being "taught" to rewrite and assemble news storys from bits and pieces - then be stolen and re-engineered for use as storytelling AIs.
Edited By TPRJones on 1164773122
Most likely advances along these lines will come from outside the caming industry first - most probably from the decendents of today's news portals that are being "taught" to rewrite and assemble news storys from bits and pieces - then be stolen and re-engineered for use as storytelling AIs.
Edited By TPRJones on 1164773122
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"