Obamacare and the VA

Post by **GORDON** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:28 am

Serious question: If Obama's new law is going to require every American citizen to have health insurance, then what is the point of a VA hospital?

Post by **GORDON** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:04 pm

I guess no one an answer to that.

unkbill · Post by **unkbill** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:12 pm

GORDON wrote:I guess no one an answer to that.

I have been to some of the VA places. We are talking from at least 25 years now. Veterans like my dad should cut there wrist before going to most of them. Think I don't know of which I speak? Just go to one. Breaks my heart. Not just for my dad but everyone that has ever served.

DoctorChaos · Post by **DoctorChaos** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:51 am

Hate to say it, but I'm sure Obama and his cronies didn't even consider the VA hospitals. You know how they feel about them military types.

Post by **GORDON** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:54 am

If everyone is going to be required soon to have health insurance, one way or another, then what is the point in having VA hospitals? I ask this as a veteran who has used VA hospitals in the past, I am not being facetious in the least.

My first thought was, "Well, VA hospitals would still be needed to treat troops returned stateside with wounds from a war zone." But you know what? If I were in that situation, I would much rather be put in a private hospital close to home with a semi-private room, let the civilian doctors take care of me, and just have the government foot the bill. If I need a shrink for PTSD, then send me a shrink. Don't put me in a big open VA hospital squad bay with 20 other people bleeding and screaming in the middle of the night with nightmares.

How about we do away with the VA hospital network completely, and just let private doctors take care of veterans with the federal newly mandated health insurance footing the bill?

Post by **Leisher** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:08 am

You have a point.

So does Doctor Chaos in saying that our president and his minions probably never thought about VA hospitals.

Post by **TPRJones** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:16 am

We will still have them for some time, mainly due to 1) bureaucratic inertia, and 2) military personnel won't have required insurance from the military, instead they'll have VA hospitals to still be where they go for care. If the healthcare thing keeps rolling along as it has been, the second one will change in five or six years and then the VA hospitals might start to go away, but not now.

Post by **GORDON** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:28 am

Here's what got me to thinking about this... I think it has to do with money.

What got me on this train of thought was another forum where some liberal was repeating the old saw, "Republicans keep cutting funding for the VA!" when we all know that a) voting for a 5% increase instead of a 6% increase is not 'cutting funding,' and b) all kinds of bullshit gets purposely attached to these spending bills by democrats for the sole purpose of getting the republicans to vote against it.

But you know what? I think most democrats don't give a crap about veteran health care at all, and they like the VA hospitals just the way they are. VA hospitals certainly are not perceived as top-of-the-line health care. They are cheap. Those two things go hand in hand. I don't think VA hospitals will ever go away because, compared to private health care facilities, the VA is low-rent as hell. The democrats need to keep this Obamacare plan as cheap as they can keep it, for PR purposes.... the VA is one way to do that, by giving veterans cheap, ghetto health care.

That's what I think.

Post by **TPRJones** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:53 am

If you want to make the VA better, then the way to do that is to stop providing health insurance to Congress, and instead their healthcare plan is VA benefits. And not fancy super-general benefits, but common average soldier benefits.

The VA would be able to afford gold-plated bedpans for everyone within a week.

DoctorChaos · Post by **DoctorChaos** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:32 am

Or (and I think this is more likely) VA hospitals become the standard for moving people through our new double plus good healthcare bureaucracy. God help anyone who actually needs help. I have only hears horror stories about the VA.

unkbill · Post by **unkbill** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:51 pm

GORDON wrote:Here's what got me to thinking about this... I think it has to do with money.

What got me on this train of thought was another forum where some liberal was repeating the old saw, "Republicans keep cutting funding for the VA!" when we all know that a) voting for a 5% increase instead of a 6% increase is not 'cutting funding,' and b) all kinds of bullshit gets purposely attached to these spending bills by democrats for the sole purpose of getting the republicans to vote against it.

But you know what? I think most democrats don't give a crap about veteran health care at all, and they like the VA hospitals just the way they are. VA hospitals certainly are not perceived as top-of-the-line health care. They are cheap. Those two things go hand in hand. I don't think VA hospitals will ever go away because, compared to private health care facilities, the VA is low-rent as hell. The democrats need to keep this Obamacare plan as cheap as they can keep it, for PR purposes.... the VA is one way to do that, by giving veterans cheap, ghetto health care.

That's what I think.

I think. How can you blame Dems. for health care and the VA mess? Because under 8 years of Bush the VAs improved so much? I don't think either side gives a shit. I have been to hell holes of VAs. But I have also been to the another one close to Port Clinton Oh. Part of it was state of the art as it should be. I also saw WWII barracks. Hope those are gone by now.

Post by **GORDON** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:00 pm

8 years of Bush was 6 years of Democratic congress, and congress makes the budgets.

Post by **TPRJones** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:01 pm

I don't think you can put much partisan blame on this. The politicians at fault would be all the ones not lobbying for better VA care. So that would be all of them, no?

Post by **GORDON** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:16 pm

TPRJones wrote:I don't think you can put much partisan blame on this. The politicians at fault would be all the ones not lobbying for better VA care. So that would be all of them, no?

They probably see 5 and 6% increases in VA funding to be just fine, when that isn't at all the problem. It's the fact that it is government run health care, and everyone involved gets paid by the government. There is no way to afford the talented people who easily make 10 times more money in private practice, and there is no incentive to stand out amongst their peers.

It hadn't occurred to me that the VA would become the model for all health care once the government runs it, as someone mentioned above. I see that as very likely.

When I was first discharged and was seeing the VA for an issue, I would call and then have to wait 6 weeks for an open appointment time. That is what we have to look forward to.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:17 am

If only there existed some form of underground market where one could purchase meds without a prescription...

Post by **GORDON** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:26 am

Malcolm wrote:If only there existed some form of underground market where one could purchase meds without a prescription...

I don't think prescription meds are an issue... Wal Mart is undercutting everyone out there. I mean, they ARE an issue, but not THE issue. Generics are cheap... isn't there a generic viagra, yet? That'll be a popular one. Walmart gives away generics for free.

6 weeks is a long time to wait when you find a lump, and actually getting in to see a doctor. Who gets a government paycheck. Then you hope you can get some MRI time within a month. 6 weeks is life and death. This actually happens through the VA.

I am basing my anecdotes on 15 year old experiences, though, so hey, maybe things have gotten better. I know that 7 years ago the massive VA hospital in Fayetteville, NC introduced valet parking so crippled people didn't need to gimp half a kilometer from their cars. That was good of them. The parking lots were always overfull from too much demand.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:23 pm

If you ultimately rely on the gov't to provide anything outside national defense, you takes your chances.

unkbill · Post by **unkbill** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:39 pm

GORDON wrote:
Malcolm wrote:If only there existed some form of underground market where one could purchase meds without a prescription...

I don't think prescription meds are an issue... Wal Mart is undercutting everyone out there. I mean, they ARE an issue, but not THE issue. Generics are cheap... isn't there a generic viagra, yet? That'll be a popular one. Walmart gives away generics for free.

6 weeks is a long time to wait when you find a lump, and actually getting in to see a doctor. Who gets a government paycheck. Then you hope you can get some MRI time within a month. 6 weeks is life and death. This actually happens through the VA.

I am basing my anecdotes on 15 year old experiences, though, so hey, maybe things have gotten better. I know that 7 years ago the massive VA hospital in Fayetteville, NC introduced valet parking so crippled people didn't need to gimp half a kilometer from their cars. That was good of them. The parking lots were always overfull from too much demand.

That is true. But you are complaining about something that even hasn't happened yet. Maybe better maybe not. I think it is a good idea. And try to carry a happy thought. I think we should all keep a happy thoughts. Half the VAs are good. Maybe we can have a good hospital or two in Toledo. HAPPY THOUGHTS.

Edited By unkbill on 1285364427

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:43 pm

Lived a few months in a country with a socialized health care system. It's a bureaucratic nightmare.