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Then the players should go right to the pros. No, wait. . .

Cakedaddy wrote: Then the players should go right to the pros. No, wait. . .

Right, the whole point is they are not allowed to.

I point you back to science and the CFL.

Leisher wrote: I point you back to science and the CFL.

America: Land of the Free*

TheCatt wrote:

Cakedaddy wrote: Then the players should go right to the pros. No, wait. . .

Right, the whole point is they are not allowed to.

So it seems like the 'college education' holds some value! It's like trying to get a job in tech, with no experience. But seriously, how many of those kids would go pro right from high school? 2%? 1%? The pros want them groomed via college. And that costs the schools a shit ton of money. And how many times to the schools make huge investments and now that the kid is perfect will really pay off for the school, he ends his college career early to enter the draft.

Cakedaddy wrote: But seriously, how many of those kids would go pro right from high school? 2%? 1%?

Basketball: Not much lower than would go pro anyway after 1 year. Remember what college Lebron went to?

Football: Probably not a lot. More would go after 1-2 years, versus the required 3 today.

Cakedaddy wrote: The pros want them groomed via college. And that costs the schools a shit ton of money. And how many times to the schools make huge investments and now that the kid is perfect will really pay off for the school, he ends his college career early to enter the draft.

But somehow the schools keep afloat, subsidizing millions of dollars of spending on other sports from that kid's career, however brief.

Basketball and football make $$$. The other sports are basically sucking $$$ from them. If the kids got paid, those sports would pay the price.

TheCatt wrote: Remember what college Lebron went to?

I have no idea where ANY player went to college, so that's a bad test. I can name MAYBE 10 pro sports player's colleges, and they'd all be Michigan players. And there's even a lot of players that I wonder "Did he go to Michigan?" "Nope. He didn't".

But somehow the schools keep afloat, subsidizing millions of dollars of spending on other sports from that kid's career, however brief.

Basketball and football make $$$. The other sports are basically sucking $$$ from them. If the kids got paid, those sports would pay the price.

Alot of your tuition goes towards programs you don't participate in. When I was in school, they built a MASSIVE rec center. They started adding a mandatory fee for the rec center whether you used it or not. I didn't start using it till my last year or so looking for stringer basketball competition. (Side note. I was REALLY good at basketball given that I never played in school. I was always one of the first white kids picked. )
Point is, they do help support other programs, just like ever other student does.

Cakedaddy wrote: I have no idea where ANY player went to college, so that's a bad test. I can name MAYBE 10 pro sports player's colleges, and they'd all be Michigan players. And there's even a lot of players that I wonder "Did he go to Michigan?" "Nope. He didn't".

Lebron didn't go to college, because the one and done rule didn't exist. He went straight to the Pro. Same with Kobe Bryant.

Cakedaddy wrote: Point is, they do help support other programs, just like ever other student does.

They pay $500,000, you pay $125/semester. Scale matters.

TheCatt wrote:

Leisher wrote: I point you back to science and the CFL.

America: Land of the Free*

I hate it when you do this argument so much because it's so insanely one sided and ignores tons of facts.
-Science has said high school bodies are not ready for the NFL. (And honestly, the conversation should just stop there.)
-The NFL is truly a private business. They don't have to hire anyone. Ask Ray Rice or Kaep.

TheCatt wrote: Lebron didn't go to college, because the one and done rule didn't exist. He went straight to the Pro. Same with Kobe Bryant.

And Kevin Garnet and dozens of other players you've never heard of because they flamed out and now are out of the league, broke, and have no education to fall back on.

Leisher wrote: Science has said high school bodies are not ready for the NFL. (And honestly, the conversation should just stop there.)

Science has also said people shouldn't own guns, drink, have a ton of sex, eat eggs/meat, drive, and a billion other things -> But this one you agree a monopoly should be able to enshrine into "law".

Leisher wrote: The NFL is truly a private business. They don't have to hire anyone. Ask Ray Rice or Kaep.

Ask the lawsuit they settled about Kaep. They don't have unmitigated freedom.

Leisher wrote: And Kevin Garnet and dozens of other players you've never heard of because they flamed out and now are out of the league, broke, and have no education to fall back on.

Enlighten us, how good of an education is the average athlete getting in college?

Leisher wrote: I hate freedom

ftfy

TheCatt wrote: Science has also said people shouldn't own guns

Science contradicts itself there because without guns would we even be here? Guns are nothing more than improved bows, which are nothing more than improved slings, and so on.

TheCatt wrote: drink

Duh

TheCatt wrote: have a ton of sex

I'll fight you. Also science contradicts itself here. Routine dropping of loads is necessary to fight colon cancer in men. The orgasm is nature's pain reliever and mood balancer. Sex is super important for relationship health. And so on.

TheCatt wrote: But this one you agree a monopoly should be able to enshrine into "law".

1. It's not a law.
2. I always root for alternatives to the NFL, it's why I pointed out the CFL, which is based in the 51st state.
3. Is it a monopoly when 32 different companies all agree that they don't want you to come work for them until your body is more developed? Should law firms just start hiring "lawyers" right out of high school?

TheCatt wrote: Ask the lawsuit they settled about Kaep. They don't have unmitigated freedom.

Settled doesn't mean lost. There are tons of other players who could still play yet couldn't get NFL jobs, like AB, TO, Ocho Cinco, Jeff George, Jay Cutler, and so on.

TheCatt wrote: Enlighten us, how good of an education is the average athlete getting in college?

Depends on the student. I do know that a person attending college has a 100% higher chance of learning valuable and marketable skills than someone who doesn't attend college.

TheCatt wrote: ftfy

"Freedom" apparently means forcing employers to hire individuals not yet physically or mentally skilled enough to do the job.

Leisher wrote: Is it a monopoly when 32 different companies all agree that they don't want you to come work for them until your body is more developed?

Yes. But the NFL has anti-trust exemptions in laws. Those 32 different companies should each be able to recruit whoever they please.

Should law firms just start hiring "lawyers" right out of high school?

Don't get me started of licensing laws.

Leisher wrote: There are tons of other players who could still play yet couldn't get NFL jobs, like AB, TO, Ocho Cinco, Jeff George, Jay Cutler, and so on.

And they got a lot of chances.

Leisher wrote: I do know that a person attending college has a 100% higher chance of learning valuable and marketable skills than someone who doesn't attend college.

You overvalue college for someone who doesn't think college is worth that much.

Leisher wrote: "Freedom" apparently means forcing employers to hire individuals not yet physically or mentally skilled enough to do the job.

That's up to each individual employer to decide.

TheCatt wrote: Yes. But the NFL has anti-trust exemptions in laws. Those 32 different companies should each be able to recruit whoever they please.

They do, but they have to adhere to rules made by their agreed upon council. Kind of like the federal government to states or the dairy council to dairy farmers.

TheCatt wrote: Don't get me started of licensing laws.

Not getting you started, but what does licensing laws have to do with hiring potential lawyers right out of high school?

TheCatt wrote: And they got a lot of chances.

And so will the kids when their bodies are ready.

TheCatt wrote: You overvalue college for someone who doesn't think college is worth that much.

Society keeps telling me it's everything, so why can't I use it in my argument?

TheCatt wrote: That's up to each individual employer to decide.

See my first response in this post. Also, back to science again for the physical part.

Leisher wrote: They do, but they have to adhere to rules made by their agreed upon council. Kind of like the federal government to states or the dairy council to dairy farmers.

But there's 2 groups making/shaping the rules. The owners, and the players. And, of course, existing players don't want more competition.

Leisher wrote: but what does licensing laws have to do with hiring potential lawyers right out of high school?

Hamilton became a lawyer by reading a book, and saying "I'm a lawyer." Good luck doing that today. Gotta pass your BAR exam. In order to take the bar, you have to have a JD. That JD has to come from an institution APPROVED by the bar association. To get to the institution approved by the bar association, you have to go to an undergraduate institution approved by ANOTHER association. And you probably have to take the LSAT exam to even get into law school.

People that already do a thing always want to limit the competition and make the thing they do more expensive.

Leisher wrote:
Society keeps telling me it's everything, so why can't I use it in my argument?

Cuz you keep saying it's crap. That'd be like saying American politics are the best because of it's two party system.

Leisher wrote: See my first response in this post.

The NFL isn't the employer, the team is.

At least now I see how people defended slavery 200 years ago.

I'll start by continuing to point out that the science says high school kids shouldn't play in the NFL, and that alone is more than enough to say, "End of discussion." But just so your typing isn't wasted...

TheCatt wrote: But there's 2 groups making/shaping the rules. The owners, and the players.

It's actually their representatives, and that does include doctors. But seriously, why can't the owners decide "We don't want to hire anyone under ___ years old?" Why would these private business owners not be allowed to have that option?

TheCatt wrote: Hamilton became a lawyer by reading a book, and saying "I'm a lawyer." Good luck doing that today. Gotta pass your BAR exam. In order to take the bar, you have to have a JD. That JD has to come from an institution APPROVED by the bar association. To get to the institution approved by the bar association, you have to go to an undergraduate institution approved by ANOTHER association. And you probably have to take the LSAT exam to even get into law school.

People that already do a thing always want to limit the competition and make the thing they do more expensive.

That is a crazy interesting topic, but yes, shouldn't be here.

TheCatt wrote: Cuz you keep saying it's crap. That'd be like saying American politics are the best because of it's two party system.

It is crap, but it's crap that society has deemed to have value. The Kardashians are complete crap too, yet for some reason society gave them value. Sometimes my opinion has all the logic and science behind it, yet it's still irrelevant.

TheCatt wrote: The NFL isn't the employer, the team is.

Of course, but the teams gave the NFL the power to set the rules and routinely meet to approve said rules.

TheCatt wrote: At least now I see how people defended slavery 200 years ago.

And with that bit of stupidity, the conversation is over.

Meanwhile, the Pac-12 is trying to align with the B1G for a late starting season.

Uh, go fuck yourself. Nobody gives a shit about playing for a Rose Bowl and not for the CFP.

If Kevin Warren does this, I genuinely will not be surprised if some insane fan murders him.

Leisher wrote: And

I won.

Also, the science says no one should ever play football.

TheCatt wrote: I won.

The filter might be gone, but we know what that means.

TheCatt wrote: Also, the science says no one should ever play football.

You've already ignored the science, why are you bringing it up now as if it's important?