Console Wars 2006 - Don't forget the PC!!!

Mostly PC, but console and mobile too
WSGrundy
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Post by WSGrundy »

Where'd you get those facts? The PS2 sold like crazy when it came out. The "standing in line for days" started with the PS2 launch. The cube didn't sell for shit. It might have at home in Japan, but it'd do anything here. The PS2 sold something like 30 million units to the Cube and X-Box's 12 million. It was a blowout last time.


Talking about the launch. The PS3 sold like crazy too but it wasn't an impressive launch number because they didn't have that many to sell. Same thing as the PS2, sony cut the launch numbers for it as well and Nintendo had a million Gamecubes ready and sold them all very quickly at launch. Same thing as this time, Sony has almost no console for sale and Nintendo has a crapload and so they always have the highest launch numbers but lose out in the end. Which is why the current situation of lots of Wiis selling and not many PS3s sold isn't anything for sony to be worried about. This is the way it has gone before.

Well, you can't say that lack of software doesn't hurt the PS3 and then turn around in the next paragraph and say it does hurt the 360.


Yes you can. Lack of software at launch means nothing because every launch lineup is weak or lackluster where as weak software line up in your second year and going into your second Xmas is a bad thing. Two different time periods.

Besides, it's not the software that's out that is the problem, it's the exclusive software that's the problem.


Agreed, 360 is fucking up because it is the start of the 2nd year and they only have one of the big name games out.

I know it's the 2nd X-Mas for the 360, and yeah, they should have more games out by now, but perhaps they're holding them all for the PS3 2nd year?


Possibly but how into a console are people going to be if 3 years later the good software is just showing up. I think they could be kicking ass in the US right now if they were giving more people a reason to buy.

The whole PS3 launch just reeks of arrogance by Sony. They felt that they had the whole market cornered and could've released a turd with PS3 stamped on it and people would buy it. That's why I'm rooting for them to do badly. Let them examine their efforts and make a bolder push to win back their fans.


It is total arrogance. The head of sony has said several times when asked about the price and such that he thinks people are going to want to work overtime just so they can have a PS3. The low launch numbers are is just sony being sony. I think they just want to get the console out and then just play PS3 commercials 100 times a day until they can get production up and running.

Their console is too new to match the price drop, and what big name games do they have to release?


Don't know what they have yet but seeing as how they have kicked everyones ass so completely the last 2 times around I would expect that at E3 they will drop some major games for the following Xmas. PS3 has way too many developers and they still have a lot of developers who give them exclusives so I will wait until next Xmas before my opinion about anything other then a sony victory changes.

This is just playing out the same way the last two launches did with the only difference being that MS is in Sega's place.




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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

Wii last week: $380
Wii this week: $435

Playstation 3 last week: $1100
Playstation 3 this week: $950


Hmmm, more units released, but higher demand versus fewer units released and lower demand. Yeah, why would Sony worry?

Talking about the launch. The PS3 sold like crazy too but it wasn't an impressive launch number because they didn't have that many to sell. Same thing as the PS2, sony cut the launch numbers for it as well and Nintendo had a million Gamecubes ready and sold them all very quickly at launch. Same thing as this time, Sony has almost no console for sale and Nintendo has a crapload and so they always have the highest launch numbers but lose out in the end. Which is why the current situation of lots of Wiis selling and not many PS3s sold isn't anything for sony to be worried about. This is the way it has gone before.


Informative, but not what I asked. I said "Where'd you get the info?"

The reason I'm asking is because I remember the Gamecube being a complete disaster last time around. I don't remember it ever having a lead in sales. In fact, if I'm remembering correctly, it was getting beat here in the states by the X-Box until later in it's run when bigger name games came out.

"Well, you can't say that lack of software doesn't hurt the PS3 and then turn around in the next paragraph and say it does hurt the 360."
Yes you can. Lack of software at launch means nothing because every launch lineup is weak or lackluster where as weak software line up in your second year and going into your second Xmas is a bad thing. Two different time periods.


No you can't. Why have a strong lineup if your competition doesn't have a strong lineup? Besides the 360 has already had a few exclusive hits and EVERY majot title the PS3 has...how can you say they're lagging? Every major name that comes out for the PS3 will hit the 360 at the same time with the sole exception of Final Fantasy XII.

"Besides, it's not the software that's out that is the problem, it's the exclusive software that's the problem."

Agreed, 360 is fucking up because it is the start of the 2nd year and they only have one of the big name games out.


You must work for the NYTimes the way you took that sentence out of context.

That statement was about Sony losing all of their exclusive licenses to Nintendo and Microsoft, not about the 360's current titles.

Possibly but how into a console are people going to be if 3 years later the good software is just showing up. I think they could be kicking ass in the US right now if they were giving more people a reason to buy.


First of all, you imply there's nothing good for the 360 now. You're wrong. Secondly, every third party title will hit the 360 and Wii the same time it hits the PS3. MS nor Nintendo can push those third party people to release their games sooner. Third, when Halo 3 hits there will be a surge of 360s sold. Ditto for the inevitable price drop. There is another huge thing that you're overlooking with the 360, but I'll get to it later.

It is total arrogance. The head of sony has said several times when asked about the price and such that he thinks people are going to want to work overtime just so they can have a PS3. The low launch numbers are is just sony being sony. I think they just want to get the console out and then just play PS3 commercials 100 times a day until they can get production up and running.


True, I mean, it worked for the Dreamcast and those PSPs are selling waaaaaay beyond expectations (I hate how sarcasm is lost when you type something).

Don't know what they have yet but seeing as how they have kicked everyones ass so completely the last 2 times around I would expect that at E3 they will drop some major games for the following Xmas. PS3 has way too many developers and they still have a lot of developers who give them exclusives so I will wait until next Xmas before my opinion about anything other then a sony victory changes.


Yes, and Atari used to kick Intellivision and Colecovision's ass too. Then the C64 kicked everyone's ass. Then the PC did. Then Nintendo dominated the industry for years. Then Sega came along and took over. Now they're gone and Sony leads the way.

Things change. I'm not a mark for MS or Nintendo or Sony. I'm simply pointing out what is going on in the console wars at the moment. I have owned pretty much every system (No Colecovision, Sega 32X, or PSP) that has ever come out, including the last three from the companies I just listed and I'm sure I'll own all of their new ones at some point.

This is just playing out the same way the last two launches did with the only difference being that MS is in Sega's place.


No, that would imply MS was on top of the console wars at some point.

See, the reason I'm concerned for Sony is that they're way too confident in their position in the market. This is traditionally a market where the leader is someone new every few years. Their current two competitors couldn't be more different.

You have Nintendo who caters to kids and families and has brought in a revolutionary new controller that gives people a little more interaction with their games making them more fun to play. Let's not forget that they have exclusive big name titles in Zelda, Mario, and Metroid that people buy systems just to play. Plus, they have the Gameboy in all its variations which the PSP failed to knock off the hill.

Then there's mega giant Microsoft. They entered the console wars pretty much because they're trying to conquer everything. But a funny thing has happen to Microsoft with the development and release of the 360, they noticed the PC again. Now they're pushing the PC for its gaming abilities and developing games, utilities, controllers, etc. to work with both the 360 and PC and merge the two worlds.

So where does that leave Sony?

What happens if MS successfully makes the public aware that a console is a stripped down PC? Nintendo already has the kids and families.

And that's the whole point of what I said initially. Sony had just better be careful of being too arrogant or it'll end up like Sega.

Oh, and read that article I linked in the first post. Sony didn't reach their goals on units, nor is customer feedback that positive about the systems. Plus, many people bought Wiis instead of the PS3 due to supply. You said Sony just wanted to get the system out and worry about production later? Explain the brilliance in driving customers to your competitors.

Bioware should be paying me, shouldn't they? I think Bioware's done some really good stuff. Whenever they have a new release I give it a whirl, because they've exceeded most people's expectations with every release. With the exception of the OC in NWN


I love Bioware's stuff except for the whole finale of KotOR 2 which was complete ass. I am looking forward to Mass Effect though.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
WSGrundy
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Post by WSGrundy »

Hmmm, more units released, but higher demand versus fewer units released and lower demand. Yeah, why would Sony worry?


Would sony rather have sold a billion units at launch day sure but seeing as how they have had slow starts every launch and been in last place in the console race with everyone of their systems and yet still completely crush the others systems I don't think that sony is lying awake at night about the current situation. If this wasn't history repeating itself I would be worried for them. If I cared who won.

Informative, but not what I asked. I said "Where'd you get the info?"


ign, gamespot, and the 8 billion press releases that Nintendo and Sony put out after the initial launches.

The reason I'm asking is because I remember the Gamecube being a complete disaster last time around. I don't remember it ever having a lead in sales. In fact, if I'm remembering correctly, it was getting beat here in the states by the X-Box until later in it's run when bigger name games came out.


Not a complete disaster, Nintendo was still the most profitable software company 4 out of the 5 years of the gamecubes life, Konami beat them out one of those years I believe. They got their asses kicked in console sales but that isn't Nintendo's main focus.

The numbers that get released have the Xbox beating the GC in sales quite easily in the US. The only reason the overall sales are close is because the Xbox does so poorly in Japan.

The PS2 couldn't get enough consoles out at launch and the Gamecube could. Launch numbers mean nothing, there are enough Nintendo psychos out there to buy up a 1.5 million Nintendo units in the first month or so but after that they always fall off. With the amount of stuff Sony puts into their consoles I doubt if they will ever be able to get a large number of units out to have the #1 launch of a system. Haven't been able to do it yet.

Why have a strong lineup if your competition doesn't have a strong lineup?


I don't know maybe to cement your lead, maybe to give a reason to someone to buy your system now and not have money for another system later. Why not take advantage of a the competitions weakness.

If you release games now you won't have any game for next year to compete with?

Besides the 360 has already had a few exclusive hits and EVERY majot title the PS3 has...how can you say they're lagging?


Not saying they are behind the PS3 in software. I just think they are wasting a golden opportunity to put the screws to Sony. Dead Rising is a great game, I will buy Viva Pinata but people aren't going to look back at 2006 as the year of Dead Rising and Viva Pinata. They may/probably will look back at it as the year of Gears of War but one super hyped and big named game seems a little weak and to be wasting a good opportunity.

Every major name that comes out for the PS3 will hit the 360 at the same time with the sole exception of Final Fantasy XII.


And Gran Turismo, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy spin offs, Jack and Daxter, Lair, Metal Gear Solid, Dragon Warrior 9, God of War 3, Kindgom Hearts 3, and the stuff that is still under wraps until E3.

True, I mean, it worked for the Dreamcast and those PSPs are selling waaaaaay beyond expectations (I hate how sarcasm is lost when you type something).


The Dreamcast didn't take that approach at all and it hasn't hurt sonys consoles yet so I don't see any reason for them to be pissing their pants if the same exact thing is happening.

I'm simply pointing out what is going on in the console wars at the moment.


And I was simply giving my opinion that I don't think what is happening at the moment is any indication of of what is to come since this moment has happen twice before and the ending was different then the beginning.

No, that would imply MS was on top of the console wars at some point.


There not currently in the #1 position for next generation consoles?

Saturn came out early and was the leader. PSX was released with small quantity and the N64 was released last and sold really well and takes the lead. Saturn dies, PSX starts getting consoles into the stores and releasing tons of games, and N64 starts delaying games and has few titles. PSX crushes both Saturn and N64 in sales.

Dreamcast is released first and sells well and is the early leader. PS2 is released in small quantities and the Gamecube has million systems ready for launch and takes the lead in sales. Dreamcast dies, PS2 gets more consoles in the stores and starts releasing tons of games, and Gamecube starts delaying stuff and has fewer titles. PS2 crushes both Dreamcast and Gamecube in sales. Xbox also pops up and embarrasses Nintendo too.

Xbox360 is released first and sells well and is the early leader. PS3 is released in small quantities and the Wii comes out of the gate selling very well and that is where we are.

All I was saying is that this has played out before and the problems sony is experiencing are nothing new and the success the first console out and Nintendo are experiencing are nothing new either.

Is sony going to kill everyone again I don't know but I don't think the current situation is any real indication of trouble.

If I were to guess I would say 50% of consoles are PS3, 40% are 360, and 10% for the Wii. That is nothing but a guess based on how well I think the 360 will do in the US this time around and the overestimating on Nintendos part on how much Mom and Dads are going to want to play the Wii.

Let's not forget that they have exclusive big name titles in Zelda, Mario, and Metroid that people buy systems just to play.

What happens if MS successfully makes the public aware that a console is a stripped down PC? Nintendo already has the kids and families.


All of those could be factors. I think you are giving Nintendo software a little too much credit though. Those games have been out before and didn't affect Sony.

Sony didn't reach their goals on units, nor is customer feedback that positive about the systems. Plus, many people bought Wiis instead of the PS3 due to supply. You said Sony just wanted to get the system out and worry about production later? Explain the brilliance in driving customers to your competitors.


The PSX and PS2 didn't reach its goals either and there were all those fun DRE issues with the PS2 at launch and the fact that some early PS2 couldn't play 2nd generation games. There were all those Gamecubes on the shelf when the PS2 was sold out also.

As far as explaining the brilliance, I can't do that because it doesn't make much sense to me on the surface to bring out a console and then not have any available to purchase but that strategy can't have hurt them that much because it has happened before and they are selling their 3rd console.
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Cakedaddy
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Post by Cakedaddy »

You guys talk too much.
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Post by TheCatt »

Holy crap. I've ordered 5 Nintendo Wii's online from various stores. 3 orders were cancelled within a day due to "stocking issues," the other I cancelled myself due to it being a bundle. The 5th one was a bare system from JC Penney that I ordered 11/20. It was supposed to ship 12/4. Last night they called me and told me that the order was cancelled because Nintendo didn't provide as many as they had thought they would get. Fuckers.

My PS3 60GB arrives today though. Then off it goes to eBay.
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Post by Leisher »

"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
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Post by Vince »

I was reading the other day that the 360 is doing better in sales than either the PS3 or the Wii. While I understand there are big constraints on availablility on the two new arrivals, I still found it pretty impressive that the 360 was doing so well over a year after its release.

I also hear that Microsoft is actually expecting to make money on the units early '07 (rather than licensing fees).

All in all, I'm impressed with how well they've done getting into the market.
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Post by TheCatt »

*Edit* Now with sourcey goodness

Source

Sales for Entire Month of November:

Console Sales (units)

* DS: 918k
* PS2: 664k
* Game Boy Advance: 661k
* Xbox 360: 511k
* Wii: 476k
* PSP: 412k
* PS3: 197k




Edited By TheCatt on 1166061246
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Post by TheCatt »

I really think XBox should have dropped the price $100, or maybe $50 and include a game for the holiday season. They've got production/inventory, why not move it?
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Post by Cakedaddy »

They are probably holding out for the 'fail over' dollars. Can't get a Wii or a PS3, I guess we'll get the 360 so there's something under the tree. . .
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Post by Vince »

Cakedaddy wrote:They are probably holding out for the 'fail over' dollars. Can't get a Wii or a PS3, I guess we'll get the 360 so there's something under the tree. . .
That's my guess. I'd be surprised if we don't see a modest drop after the season.
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Post by TheCatt »

Console Sales Year To Date

XBox 360 - 7.74m
Wii - 3.19m
PS3 - 1.18m
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Post by Paul »

Sony makes the PS3s lock up on purpose.

Also, they have a bridge to sell you.
WSGrundy
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Post by WSGrundy »

Updated versions of the 360 are on there way, not sure if that would make you hold off if you want one but the new one is set to include.

- HDMI connection
- 360 runs at a much cooler temp
- 120 to 160 GB HD
- fixes previous crashing issues
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Post by Vince »

Friend of mine bought a PS3 before Christmas. Said it was just sitting on the shelf at the store.

Makes me wonder if the stories of the huge demand for these things may be a bit over blown.
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Post by TheCatt »

Those stories ended in November/mid-December.

They are all over the place now. Bestbuy.com has had them in stock for 3 days straight. No one cares.
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Post by Paul »

NSFW
PS3's get more action than the guys who buy them.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

Circuit City has had the 20gb (at various stores in my area) and 30gb (on line) PS3 systems in stock for almost a week now. The Wii bundle which includes a bunch of games is still sold out.

Not quite what I expected to see.
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Post by Paul »

I don't check out consoles at stores, but I got stuck at a Target on Sunday while my wife shopped, so I thought I'd see what was in stock.
The Wii shelf was bare while the PS3 shelf was 3/4 full.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

I saw PS3s sitting in a Sam's Club, no Wiis.
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