Welcome to Thunderdome

Posted: **Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:00 am**

(1.) This movie essentially boils down to: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

This film has to assume that all time occurs simultaneously. It cannot work if it assumes time flows in a straight line.

Think about it.

The Rainmaker watched his mom get killed. (Emily Blunt) Since Bruce kills her, and he was sent back in time by the Rainmaker...

So if time flows in a straight line, the Rainmaker would never be created to send Bruce back.

(2.) Why did JGL kill himself? Why not just shoot his hand off?

(3.) The whole scene involving his buddy and his own older self was awesome. However, didn't that create all sorts of problems? If stepping on a butterfly creates time problems, then wouldn't the future mob bosses be VERY afraid of anything at all being changed in the past?

(4.) Why tell the Loopers that their loop is being closed at all? Why send them to themselves? Hire a crew elsewhere, and have them kill the older versions of the original crew and vice versa. Neither would ever know, and there's nothing to ever worry about. Nobody will see it coming like Bruce did. If you want to retire them, and reward their work, then let them call it a day after kill #100. However, waiting 30 years to ensure their silence is really stupid.

And wait a minute...how the fuck did they end know about "closing their loop"? Who explained it to them? Jeff Daniels? He would have to have been the one to explain that. But Rainmaker would have come along AFTER he was sent back in time, and Rainmaker was the one closing the loops.

(5.) Sending Jeff Daniels back in time is the biggest fuck up of them all. You're sending this smart guy back in time with full knowledge of the future, and putting him in a position of power? He alone could break the entire time stream. In 30 years he could be the most powerful man on the planet, and these mob bosses in the future would never have risen to their posts.

(6.) That kid was really fucking smart for his age, and seemed to be very advanced. He wouldn't remember JGL or Bruce? He wouldn't seek revenge? He wouldn't try to figure out a way to save his mom?

(7.) JGL couldn't have watched the scene unfold, and then said to himself, "Ok, I've got 30 years to figure out a better way to handle this situation." It's a fucking time loop! He's got an infinite number of chances to get it right.

(8.) On what planet does Bruce Willis have to shoot Emily Blunt to get to a little boy? Seriously, why'd he shoot her? He couldn't have simply walked up and knocked her out with a single punch or just shoved her on the ground? Why'd her death piss the kid off anyway? He seemed to fucking hate her guts earlier.

(9.) And what's the deal with TKs? They imply they're very common in the future. So why's he such a badass? Where the hell did they come from? Why was this never explained? This bugged the shit out of me during the film. I actually thought to myself, "Am I watching the X-Men?"

I think the time travel in Terminator 1 & 2 was handled better...

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:25 am**

What I wondered was...

They said they sent peeps they wanted to kill back in time, because it was too hard to dispose of a body in the future?

Then why not just give them a lethal injection that will kill them in 2 minutes, and then send them back into the past, and then just let them die with a disposal guy to take them to the furnace? Seems more efficient in every way.

+++++

As for the time travel paradoxes... I could live with them. The movie itself told you not to worry about it, or we will spend all day talking about it and making diagrams with straws. I pretty much kept up with the time stream/reality changes, and the whole "My future self's memories aren't changing until you do something different" stuff.

Also, the scene with the old guy's limbs disappearing as his younger self got butchered was pretty cool.

All in all, good flick.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:40 am**

The movie itself told you not to worry about it, or we will spend all day talking about it and making diagrams with straws.

Should we allow storytellers to say, "Ok, this doesn't make sense at all, but ignore it because this is a cool story."?

My answer would be "yes".

This movie being a prime example of a very well told and interesting story, despite the obvious flaws in the story's logic.

However, that doesn't give it a pass from being dissected and analyzed later. After all, what's the purpose of art if we can't examine and discuss it? Hell, even the makers of the original Total Recall, which was essentially a popcorn action flick, were trying to spark discussion with the ambiguity of their story.

I think it speaks volumes about the concept, acting, and direction that this story was sooooooo flawed, yet so immensely entertaining.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:00 pm**

Leisher wrote:Should we allow storytellers to say, "Ok, this doesn't make sense at all, but ignore it because this is a cool story."?

That's pretty much the entire premise of the last couple of seasons of Doctor Who.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:22 pm**

That guy who killed himself had a pretty good blog post on this movie here

I have to admit, when I watch movies, I pretty much turn off critical thought and allow them to just entertain me. As such, I often dont remember a ton of details that would cause issues.

But since he closed his own loop, I was trying to figure out which narrative we were watching when. The blog helped me clarify.

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:32 pm**

Yeah, I had to pause the movie a couple times to help keep the women in the room from getting too far behind.

Ugh.

Women, amirite?

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:37 pm**

As for the "why didn't he just shoot off his hand?" question...

That's a good question. It didn't occured to me. I think Young Joe just had a moment of insight how the future would go if Old Joe shot the mom, and made a decision, and had the length of time it would take Old Joe to pull his trigger. There was no time for thought, just action. So, I liked that he ended up being selfless at the end... it was redeeming.

ALSO... with Jeff Daniels, what were you talking about with some sort of insight at the beginning? We were wondering if the young idiot with the gat was young Jeff Daniels, but I wasn't sure if it was more than hinted with the "You didn't shoot your other foot off, did ya?" line.

Also, I just realized, "Why French? You'd be better off learning Chinese, trust me" is a good line. I didn't realize til now that later we saw why he should learn Chinese.

Edited By GORDON on 1358199484

Posted: **Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:07 pm**

...I pretty much turn off critical thought and allow them to just entertain me

I can do that for one viewing at most. Which is why I avoid seeing flicks like "Fifth Element" or "Jurassic Park" currently. Every viewing chips away at any cred the initial viewing imparted.

Posted: **Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:38 pm**

This film has to assume that all time occurs simultaneously. It cannot work if it assumes time flows in a straight line.

Thought about this a bit. If you assume that's true, it's violated immediately when his buddy fails to kill his older self. The older dude starts losing fingers, a nose, etc. That implies shit happening to the younger self has a concrete effect on the older self -- that particular older self. We'll call that the "time = straight line" rule. Soon as Joe fails to kill Bruce, then there's no reason for that Joe to grow up to be Bruce, so there's got to be a disconnect. That implies parallel realities or some other shit. They try to have it both ways and it bugged the everloving shit out of me as soon as Bruce's flashback happened.

If what Joe does affects Bruce, then Bruce shouldn't even have the desire to hunt down the kid. Joe just had a chance to gun him down and declined.

(4.) Why tell the Loopers that their loop is being closed at all? Why send them to themselves

Argh. Utter fucking stupid, lazy writing.

Sending Jeff Daniels back in time is the biggest fuck up of them all.

Double the above comment.

(7.) JGL couldn't have watched the scene unfold, and then said to himself, "Ok, I've got 30 years to figure out a better way to handle this situation." It's a fucking time loop! He's got an infinite number of chances to get it right.

Depending on whether it's the straight line or parallel reality rules working, that may or may not work.

That kid was really fucking smart for his age, and seemed to be very advanced. He wouldn't remember JGL or Bruce? He wouldn't seek revenge? He wouldn't try to figure out a way to save his mom?

It has to be another difference in timelines. In Bruce's, he closed his loop and probably the kid never meets him at any age.

On what planet does Bruce Willis have to shoot Emily Blunt to get to a little boy? Seriously, why'd he shoot her? He couldn't have simply walked up and knocked her out with a single punch or just shoved her on the ground?

It's called "writing yourself into a corner."

Why'd her death piss the kid off anyway? He seemed to fucking hate her guts earlier.

In spite of his intellectual and telekinetic abilities, he's a fucking kid. Temper tantrums come and go. It's just that his are fueled by a slightly more grown-up rage. You'll also notice he didn't pick her up with his mind and and explode her like a blood sausage (so waiting for WL2), and he apologized later in a non-Bart Simpson way for what he did. I can't imagine he'd like watching his foster mother get killed, either. Finally, it's not like he enjoyed what he did to the agent after Joe found him hiding in the field; he's not a sadist.

And what's the deal with TKs? They imply they're very common in the future.

Said they were at about 10% of the population with a genetic mutation. Most of them could only lift quarters. Joe seemed impressed as hell when the chick lifted a zippo. I'd almost forgotten about the TK thing until she did. I put that together with her booking into the safe when the kid started to yell and figured that was probably how shit was going to end up.

Edited By Malcolm on 1382837974

Posted: **Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:05 pm**

Welcome to Thunderdome

Looper Spoiler Thread