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Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:36 pm
by GORDON
This is a long-form, fleshed out story about the dude with the ultra-depressing life that was talked about in The Silmarillion.
I'd forgotten the name of that dude, and half way through this book I was thinking, "This story sounds familiar. I'll have to ask Thib what that one dude's name from The Silmarillion was." But by the end of the book I was certain it was the same story.
And it's still depressing... Morgoth was a cock of the highest order.
According to the appendix it was all written by JRR in numerous manuscripts, but his son put the story together for this book.
So the language is all JRR.
And that's good.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:55 pm
by Malcolm
Isn't it Turin?
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:02 pm
by GORDON
Yeah, he's one of the children of Hurin.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:38 pm
by thibodeaux
Yeah, but the story is really stolen from the Kalevala.
Depressing as hell; one of my least favorite parts of the Silmarillion. But I believe it's one of the first stories that Tolkien came up with for Middle-Earth.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:46 pm
by GORDON
thibodeaux wrote:Yeah, but the story is really stolen from
the Kalevala.
Depressing as hell; one of my least favorite parts of the Silmarillion. But I believe it's one of the first stories that Tolkien came up with for Middle-Earth.
Hmm, that's very interesting.
Christopher Tolkien threw out a lot of dates in the appendix, but I think he said the first poem JRRT wrote about Turin was in 1920, and was revisited often over the next 35 years, just not in a "beginning to end" format.
That's how CT was able to put the whole story together from different notes.
JRRT said that he wanted to put together lore for the peoples of England, who he claimed had none... I wonder what else he borrowed, as from the Kalevala.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:23 pm
by thibodeaux
Well, one or more of the Elven languages was based on Finnish.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:29 pm
by GORDON
Just amazing how much evil can be wrought while having the best of intentions.
Regarding the story.
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:28 pm
by thibodeaux
GORDON wrote:Just amazing how much evil can be wrought while having the best of intentions.
Regarding the story.
Wondered how we'd turned this into a liberal-bashing thread...
Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:45 pm
by GORDON
Not my intention at all, heh, but I like how you think.
Every action Turin ever took was an effort to fight evil, but at every single pass he was responding to Morgoth's master plan to spread evil. Borrowed mythology or not, it is fairly amazing how JRRT was able to write that.
Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:35 pm
by Malcolm
People have been manipulated by more intelligent people since the dawn of time.
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:32 pm
by thibodeaux
I'm reading this now. It's actually more enjoyable than the Reader's Digest version that ships with the Silmarillion.
But still. I just think nothing else Tolkien wrote equaled the power of LotR. Maybe I'm just a huge fanboi, but I say there is some incredibly moving writing in LotR. I've been reading it aloud to my son and some places I nearly cry.
Shut up.
Edited By thibodeaux on 1329870792
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:47 pm
by GORDON
I just read The Hobbit to mine. Some parts got me a little choked up.
Also I did relevant voices.
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:44 pm
by TheCatt
Hey, can my wife join this book club too?
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:48 pm
by GORDON
She wants to register on the forum?
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:02 pm
by TPRJones
I must confess, I didn't like the LotR books. Too boring.
Good movies, though.
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:15 pm
by thibodeaux
TPRJones wrote:I must confess, I didn't like the LotR books. Too boring.
I hope you enjoy roasting in Hell, blasphemer.
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:00 pm
by thibodeaux
Something I did not realize: the "Fangorn Forest" picture that's on the cover of some editions of The Two Towers is actually a scene from this story:
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki....est.jpg
This painting by J.R.R. Tolkien appeared first in The J. R. R. Tolkien Calendar 1974, and an enlargement of the central area of the picture in The Lord of the Rings 1977 Calendar, in both Calendars captioned 'Fangorn Forest', as in the title inscription, in the hand of the artist, on the painting itself. In The Silmarillion Calendar 1978 the same reproduction as in 1977 was used, but this time captioned "Beleg finds Gwindor in Taur-nu-Fuin". The reason for this is that while preparing the 1978 Calendar the original significance of the painting was realized.
J.R.R. Tolkien stated in a letter of 1937 that the picture of Mirkwood for The Hobbit was itself redrawn from a painting made earlier to illustrate the passage in The Silmarillion (Chapter 21) where Beleg finds Gwindor in the forest of Taur-nu-Fuin. That painting is beyond question the one reproduced here, despite the title 'Fangorn Forest'. In view of the title the two figures would naturally be taken to be the hobbits Pippin and Merry, straying in Fangorn before their encounter with Treebeard (The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter 4). It is clear, however, that this is not so; the figures are elves and not hobbits; and the elf climbing over the tree-roots is Beleg Strongbow of Doriath, bearing his great sword Anglachel (which was afterwards reforged for Tu'rin and from which he became known as the Black Sword of Nargothrond). The other is Gwindor of Nargothrond, lying exhausted after his escape from the mines of Angband, with his lamp beside him.
The only possible explanation is that J.R.R. Tolkien decided that the Silmarillion painting could nevertheless be used, in the 1974 Calendar, as an illustration of the hobbits in Fangorn Forest. It was probably done at the same time as the other Silmarillion paintings in the late 1920s.
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:16 pm
by GORDON
This is a good reference, too.
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
