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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:12 pm
by TheCatt
Story
The Ferguson, Missouri, police officer who killed Michael Brown says the teenager rushed at him full speed in the moments before the shooting, according to an account phoned in to a radio station and confirmed by a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation.
Meanwhile, a spokesman for the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney said Monday that evidence in the shooting death could be presented to a grand jury as early as Wednesday.
According to the account on St. Louis radio station KFTK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation on August 9 began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.
When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said.
Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.
Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, said the caller, who identified herself as the officer's friend.
A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation later told CNN the caller's account is "accurate," in that it matches what Wilson has told investigators.
So that's the police version of the story.
Brown was unarmed when Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, 28, shot him on a street Aug. 9. Witnesses in the area said Brown had raised his hands to surrender when he was shot.
Other side.
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:15 pm
by TPRJones
Well, at least they are reported in equal detail. Yay, journalism!
As usual, I agree on the whole with John Oliver:
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Although he was nicer than I would have been. He didn't use the phrase "murderous jack-booted thugs guilty of treason against the very people they were hired to protect and in need of a good hanging" even once!
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:26 pm
by GORDON
On the subject of militarized police, I think my fave question so far is why are they wearing camouflage?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:25 am
by thibodeaux
It often seems like cops are eager to shoot first and ask questions later. For example, you can find tons of stories of police shooting dogs that are chained or fenced, or just wagging their tails and play-bowing. Even when the shooting is prima-facie justified, like the WalMart guy recently, they have terrible marksmanship and wind up hurting bystanders (again, WalMart incident).
On the other hand: this guy Brown is, what, 6'5"+? 300 lbs? He's gigantic. The store video from a few minutes before he was shot shows him roughing up a clerk and walking out with stolen merchandise. I believe he was also "jaywalking," which probably means he was sauntering down the middle of the street like he owned it. Wouldn't surprise me if he was drunk or high or stupid, or all three. So I can totally believe he would rush the cop.
And let's face it: cops DO get killed on the job, often by their own gun. That's the downside of carrying: sometimes, you just have to shoot the fucker before he takes it and shoots you. I hate it when the gun control idiots say that, but there's a grain of truth to it: if you have a gun, rule #1 is KEEP THAT GUN. There's some evidence that Trayvon Martin was trying to take Zimmerman's gun right before Zimmerman shot him.
Speaking of which: guess who popped up in this Ferguson situation? Benjamin Crump, the "lawyer for the Martin family." Also Sharpton, but you gotta expect him. They're vermin. Their mere presence is evidence for a bullshit situation.
So, all around: a giant mess. Exactly the kind of thing that requires careful examination of the evidence and ponderous deliberation, merely to find the most probable description of events, and which is likely to be unsatisfactory to all parties in the best case.
So naturally we need a riot.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:29 am
by Vince
From what I'm seeing, it looks like the shooting was justified. Everything after that was pooch screwing in how the locals handled it.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:24 am
by GORDON
All well and good.
I find myself more and more taking the position that maybe cops shouldn't be shooting people. They prove themselves time and again untrustworthy, unstable, stupid, dishonest, and sadistic (many, not all, granted). Tasers aren't 100% non-lethal, but are at least effective and we could avoid situations like this. The thug would not have had a gun for which to lunge, and he wouldn't be in the morgue over.... whatever it is. And there would not be rioting, now.
Not saying lots of peeps don't have a killin coming, I just find myself less and less likely to trust the government to have competent people pulling the triggers. The militarization of the civilian police does not improve my disposition one little bit, either.
In summary, neither side is right, but the police are more wrong. They are supposed to not allow shit like this to happen, and their main tactic so far seems to be fuck up a whole lot of bystanders and arrest reporters.
Edited By GORDON on 1408453142
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:55 am
by Vince
GORDON wrote:I find myself more and more taking the position that maybe cops shouldn't be shooting people. They prove themselves time and again untrustworthy, unstable, stupid, dishonest, and sadistic (many, not all, granted). Tasers aren't 100% non-lethal, but are at least effective and we could avoid situations like this. The thug would not have had a gun for which to lunge, and he wouldn't be in the morgue over.... whatever it is. And there would not be rioting, now.
Sorry, if a 300 lb meat head bum rushes me and I'm packing, he's getting shot in the head. If a private citizen had done this, he'd have been justified as well.
If the big asshole hadn't been a big asshole he wouldn't be in the morgue. Did you see him shoving the store clerk around? That guy looked like he was all of 5'4 and 60 years old.
Meat head was a punk ass and it was only a matter of time before someone shot him in the head or he ended up in prison.
Again, most everything AFTER the shooting was handled poorly. But the shooting itself looks valid.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:53 am
by TheCatt
Maybe they should shoot people, with less fatal weapons.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:12 am
by Vince
That didn't seem to help with Rodney King. If you'll recall, they hit him twice with the tazer darts and he just shrugged them off and kept coming. Didn't seem to do anything to prevent the riots. Actually, I think there would have been less trouble if they'd just shot and killed Rodney King after the tazer didn't slow him down.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:37 pm
by Leisher
Rioters shooting at police. 31 arrested.
Here's the interesting bit that's buried deep in the article:
Johnson said some of those arrested had come from California and New York.
I wonder who might have incited these people to show up? I wonder how they were able to take time off work to show up?
Anyone remember how in Iraq it was pointed out that a lot of the resistance was coming from people not from Iraq?
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:03 pm
by Vince
"It's like looting tourism," said the officer.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:20 pm
by GORDON
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:29 pm
by Vince
Heheh... that's about true, too.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:35 pm
by GORDON
That's my main problem with all this.
All thieves are scum, and I support and advocate a return to the pillory, lashing, and jailing in the town square for minor-major theft. Should be public and painful and embarrassing. That's how I feel about the rioting.
You don't attack anyone who has a gun, especially a cop, because
Cops are trained to kill you and aim for center mass and not stop firing until you are most assuredly dead, and they have a lot better equipment than you do and are probably wearing body armor anyway and could be mistaken for national guard troops. This part I don't agree with (aside from the body armor, purely defensive). I think the tools exist that civilian police don't need to go lethal every single time, even in the face of a lethal threat. Even when raiding a meth lab (just cordon and wait them out because you might have the WRONG FUCKING HOUSE). It just isn't necessary. Cops don't need to be going full Waco on petty shit, but they are for some reason.
Edited By GORDON on 1408480864
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:50 pm
by Vince
GORDON wrote:That's my main problem with all this.
All thieves are scum, and I support and advocate a return to the pillory, lashing, and jailing in the town square for minor-major theft. Should be public and painful and embarrassing. That's how I feel about the rioting.
You don't attack anyone who has a gun, especially a cop, because
Cops are trained to kill you and aim for center mass and not stop firing until you are most assuredly dead, and they have a lot better equipment than you do and are probably wearing body armor anyway and could be mistaken for national guard troops. This part I don't agree with (aside from the body armor, purely defensive). I think the tools exist that
civilian police don't need to go lethal every single time, even in the face of a lethal threat. Even when raiding a meth lab (just cordon and wait them out because you might have the
WRONG FUCKING HOUSE). It just isn't necessary. Cops don't need to be going full Waco on petty shit, but they are for some reason.
Agree with all of this. I think the cop was probably in a justifiable shooting here.
I'm okay with tanks and guys with full auto weapons and everything else in the streets during a riot as long as they are there because the Gov called up the State National Guard. That's the only time it should be okay, because when that happens it should be a big deal with a LOT of media attention.
Too many "no knock" warrants. Too many tactical units. Why the hell does the Dept of Ed need a tac unit? Insane.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:39 am
by TheCatt
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:25 am
by Leisher
I have been told that video is irrelevant.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:19 am
by TheCatt
Yeah, I heard the same. I don't get that at all. According to John Oliver, "no one asked for [it]." Really? No one wanted to see the crime he committed before getting shot? I find that odd.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:30 am
by thibodeaux
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:36 am
by Leisher
Fact: He walked into a convenience store and strong arm robbed the place. He walked out without any fear of consequences.
I'm not really sure why that's irrelevant since it creates a knowledge about his state of mind before the shooting.
- It shows us what he thought of the law.
- It shows us what he thought of his own physical abilities.
- It shows us that perhaps he was thinking the cops knew about the robbery or would know soon, and he might have been concerned about going to jail.
- It backs up the cop's version of Brown's behavior far more than the story about him "surrendering".
Yeah, none of that's important...