Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:25 am
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:38 am
I've never understood the main argument for projects like this: "Our students will fall behind in technology if we don't!" What does that even mean? What do they think kids in rich school systems are doing with tech? Hint: it rhymes with Shmarmville. Current adults have had no problem adopting tech as it was invented. Kids in the past haven't needed tech to learn. These people are stupid and shouldn't be in the education business.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:14 pm
Macs were the primary computers used in schools for a long time. Peeps turned out ok in a Windows world.
If parents want their kids to use PCs in school, tell them to buy the PC. That way they're responsible for them, not the system.
For the inevitable people who will claim they can't afford PCs (like folks who can't afford to have an ID), work with local businesses to get them donate old equipment, which you can then sell to underprivileged kids at a substantial discount. (I hold an annual employees only sale each year for 3-4 year old equipment we're done using. We routinely sell laptops anywhere from $25-$175 and desktops from $10-$75.)
Then you can offer computer classes.
If parents want their kids to use PCs in school, tell them to buy the PC. That way they're responsible for them, not the system.
For the inevitable people who will claim they can't afford PCs (like folks who can't afford to have an ID), work with local businesses to get them donate old equipment, which you can then sell to underprivileged kids at a substantial discount. (I hold an annual employees only sale each year for 3-4 year old equipment we're done using. We routinely sell laptops anywhere from $25-$175 and desktops from $10-$75.)
Then you can offer computer classes.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:16 pm
It's really about implementing individualized learning plans, taking away the serialization of instructor led learning. Mooresville, NC has done well at it. The positives are there, but it certainly takes more than just buying laptops to make it work
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:18 pm
Computers and the Internet are great for research. Research is not education. I suspect the people that proposed these programs didn't grasp the difference.GORDON wrote:I've never understood the main argument for projects like this: "Our students will fall behind in technology if we don't!" What does that even mean? What do they think kids in rich school systems are doing with tech? Hint: it rhymes with Shmarmville. Current adults have had no problem adopting tech as it was invented. Kids in the past haven't needed tech to learn. These people are stupid and shouldn't be in the education business.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:32 pm
Current adults have had no problem adopting tech as it was invented.
Bullshit. If this were true, we'd all be voting online by now.
Kids in the past haven't needed tech to learn.
Again, bullshit. Or were your parents up in arms when you got to use a calculator instead of a slide rule instead of estimating logarithms by hand?
Computers and the Internet are great for research. Research is not education.
Used properly, they're fantastic educational tools. And their potential is huge in that area. Simply handing off a laptop and expecting it to work magic is a special kind of stupid, though.
Edited By Malcolm on 1407188770
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:34 pm
You saying bullshit is bullshit.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:37 pm
Adults do not adapt to new technology terribly well. Period.GORDON wrote:You saying bullshit is bullshit.
1) VCR displays and flashing lights ... how many fucking jokes are there?
2) Every time someone opens an attachment from an email written in a foreign language, then runs it on their box.
3) The elderly and tech-hopeless adults of the world are the reason tech support has to ask if your power supply and monitor are switched on.
4) Most adults I know still aren't aware of correct maintenance procedures for their cars which is a tech that's been around how fucking long now?
I could go on, but I'll stop beating the old, dead horse.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:08 pm
SO you're looking at the below-average of the population and applying it to the whole? ALl I have to say is smartphones are probably the most popular tech on earth, and the people buying them most likely weren't given laptops in school. There are still below-average students. Throwing a laptop at them, even with a curriculum, isn't going to help make them not be below average.
And suggesting the insecurity of online voting is indicative of anything is... something. Not applicable to this conversation.
I didn't touch a computer until I was 13, a TRS-80 model III. I didn't own one until I was 16, a C64. I didn't actually learn how to write serious code on one until I was about 24, until then they were toys.
Kids don't need tech to not fall behind, they need something a lot more fundamental... the ability to think, and a firm hand to guide them through their formative years. Very few are born knowing how to act like adults, and laptops aren't teaching them that, either.
And suggesting the insecurity of online voting is indicative of anything is... something. Not applicable to this conversation.
I didn't touch a computer until I was 13, a TRS-80 model III. I didn't own one until I was 16, a C64. I didn't actually learn how to write serious code on one until I was about 24, until then they were toys.
Kids don't need tech to not fall behind, they need something a lot more fundamental... the ability to think, and a firm hand to guide them through their formative years. Very few are born knowing how to act like adults, and laptops aren't teaching them that, either.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:11 pm
Most adults I know can't act like adults.
K. I had one when I was 4. It molded my brain more than a bit.
Which was aided by my machine usage.
I didn't touch a computer until I was 13, a TRS-80 model III. I didn't own one until I was 16, a C64. I didn't actually learn how to write serious code on one until I was about 24, until then they were toys.
K. I had one when I was 4. It molded my brain more than a bit.
Kids don't need tech to not fall behind, they need something a lot more fundamental... the ability to think...
Which was aided by my machine usage.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:13 pm
I think I speak for everyone here when I say none of us would have ever guessed you were better at speaking to machines than to humans.Malcolm wrote:K. I had one when I was 4. It molded my brain more than a bit.I didn't touch a computer until I was 13, a TRS-80 model III. I didn't own one until I was 16, a C64. I didn't actually learn how to write serious code on one until I was about 24, until then they were toys.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:26 pm
I'm with Malcolm. The machines are a tool to be used for purposes, one of which can be education. A lot of education is accumulation of information, facts, and principles (addition, subtraction, etc). Computers can do this, and do it at the rate of a person's learning much better than a teacher can. Especially since that teacher has 20-30 other students to worry about.
The people who started writing code in their single-digit or teen years almost certainly will surpass those who didn't until later, but that's a specific skill. Technology is important. Or else, we'd still be using pencils and paper for everything. Not even slide rulers or calculators, right?
The people who started writing code in their single-digit or teen years almost certainly will surpass those who didn't until later, but that's a specific skill. Technology is important. Or else, we'd still be using pencils and paper for everything. Not even slide rulers or calculators, right?
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:32 pm
And I will disagree. The old dudes who invented computer and programming languages in the 1960's had 2 things in common: they weren't raised on it, and they had no problem using it as adults. Smart people will be smart no matter what, and stupid people will be stupid. Upbringing is important, and laptops are not a substitute for that nor are they a "win" switch. In fact, I will pull a guess out of my ass and say dong what the district did in TFA did way more harm than good.
Yeah, they are a tool just like pencils, but pencils never gave you access to facebook and porn and pedo predators and cyber bullying and infinite hours of time wasting and distracting software.
Yeah, they are a tool just like pencils, but pencils never gave you access to facebook and porn and pedo predators and cyber bullying and infinite hours of time wasting and distracting software.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:48 pm
Yeah, they are a tool just like pencils, but pencils never gave you access to facebook and porn and pedo predators and cyber bullying and infinite hours of time wasting and distracting software.
Are you shitfucking me? All the hours of wasted time writing graffiti on various walls in various cities since the dawn of pictographic languages...
Christ, the first time someone captured knowledge in physical form, probably on a rock with natural pigments, I'm sure the old shaman in charge of oral tradition was mortified.
Smart people will be smart no matter what, and stupid people will be stupid.
There are different types of stupid. There's:
1) Too stupid to remember your phone number.
2) Too stupid to figure out how to work a phone.
At least one of those things will be alleviated by a laptop.
In a more practical sense, scheduling software beats having a personal secretary to keep your appointments in order.
Edited By Malcolm on 1407178454
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:59 pm
Yes, the problem in failing schools is lack of laptops and scheduling software.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:00 pm
No, the point is that having a laptop to schedule your appointments make you look less "stupid" because you're not apt to forget them. Technology remembers it for you and reminds you to do shit.GORDON wrote:Yes, the problem in failing schools is lack of laptops and scheduling software.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:09 pm
We were allowed to use calculators only after we'd mastered it with pencil and paper. And really then only to allow you to spend less time on the basics while solving more complex problems.TheCatt wrote:The people who started writing code in their single-digit or teen years almost certainly will surpass those who didn't until later, but that's a specific skill. Technology is important. Or else, we'd still be using pencils and paper for everything. Not even slide rulers or calculators, right?
We are probably decades away from being able to actually have computers "teach". Computers can be great helping a child along with concepts they pretty much understand, and allow them to learn it at their own pace. But a computer can't (at this point) look at a child's face when you ask them a question and see that really don't have a clue. Even if they can give you the correct answer, sometimes you can look at them and tell that they really aren't getting it yet.
A machine can't tell you haven't had that "ah-ha!" moment. And honestly, it's the "ah-ha" moments that make you want to continue to learn.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:12 pm
So, the computer does what a parent should do?Malcolm wrote:No, the point is that having a laptop to schedule your appointments make you look less "stupid" because you're not apt to forget them. Technology remembers it for you and reminds you to do shit.GORDON wrote:Yes, the problem in failing schools is lack of laptops and scheduling software.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:17 pm
We were allowed to use calculators only after we'd mastered it with pencil and paper. And really then only to allow you to spend less time on the basics while solving more complex problems.
Fine.
We are probably decades away from being able to actually have computers "teach".
They teach right now. I learned all kinds of shit about pathfinding methods after years of drawing maps on graph paper.
So, the computer does what a parent should do?
Goddamnit, I'm talking about your average adult human being. Years ago, we figured out keeping all that shit in our heads was a bad idea. Then some genius got the idea to write down his schedule on paper. Google Calendar is the logical evolution of that sort of thing. It's got functionality not available in Looseleaf Paper 1.0.
Here's what happens when you try to cram seven dimensions into two using just paper. Would be awesome if I had some kind of dynamic display that would hide one or two so I could focus on the others.
Edited By Malcolm on 1407180126
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:23 pm
Goddamit, this entire thread has been about children being given laptops and whether or not it is worthwhile.Malcolm wrote:Goddamnit, I'm talking about your average adult human being.So, the computer does what a parent should do?