Welcome to Thunderdome

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:14 pm**

Leisher wrote:They're giving proper credit to those who came before them, and trying to add their own wrinkle.

It's not a good thing to give proper credit to my work by making a really shitty version and saying I inspired you.

I'd be like, "Please stop saying I inspired that bowel movement, or I swear to God I'll sue you for all you're worth."

** edited to say: "Just give me my money under the table."

Edited By Vince on 1394482486

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:09 pm**

Vince wrote:
GORDON wrote:They all talk to each other in BR and its all like CHING CHONG CHING CHONG CHING CHONG and it's like wtf.
ROFL! I swear to you, I was in the Farmers Market with the wife a few weeks ago and she was trying to read the ingredients on one of the Asian food stuffs packaging. She says, "I can't read this, it's all in ching chong."

I shouldn't laugh at that, but I did.

The hell thread did I click into?

I've given up on having any kind of discussion about these movies when it will all come down to "Battle Royale did it first."

I really like the HG movies, and I don't give a shit if the author of the books is some lying, plagiarizing bitch. And BR wasn't that good.

Posted: **Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:16 pm**

We need to stop criticizing this movie for stealing from another movie because it's been done?

He's saying stop plagiarizing your complaints, you plagiarist.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:17 am**

I've given up on having any kind of discussion about these movies when it will all come down to "Battle Royale did it first."

And I've already proven that you're a hypocrite for taking that stance since you've done it to other films.

But whatever, I honestly don't give a shit if you love HG or not. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong or upset you so much that you become openly racist.

I do find it funny that you're complaining about not being able to have a discussion about the film because all anyone talks about is BR, yet I've asked multiple questions throughout this thread, and you've just ignored them all.

Why do I have a mad on for HG? It irritates me that this woman might as well have made a shot for shot remake, but because she changed a few themes, and it stars America's latest sweetheart, it's ok. I wouldn't give a shit if it was one or two concepts, but as pointed out, it's almost the entire movie.

HOWEVER, per your request, we're not going to discuss that. So, let's have an actual discussion on the merits of these movies. You tell me what's her fault, and what's the filmmakers' fault.

I listed out all the problems I had with the first film elsewhere in this thread, and even your first review was: "Worth seeing, I guess." (Something I pointed out previously, and inquired about, but was ignored. I guess it refers to BR too much?) I enjoyed the first film, but didn't believe the hype was worthwhile.

As for the second film, where do I begin?

WARNING: Spoilers galore below.

Explain to me the logic behind the 75th games. Here's an event used to keep the people in line, and the "brilliant" dictator thinks it's wise to undermine the credibility of it by forcing past winners back into the arena? That's the exact opposite of what any person trying to maintain power would do.

And the "true" reason for said games was even worse. "Ok gentlemen, we have one mission, and that's to keep Cat alive. Our plan is to put her in as much danger as possible, but don't worry, we control the arena although we won't do anything to actually keep the arena's dangers from killing her..."

This government has ALL the power, yet instead of simply pushing the symbol for rebellion into a corner or swaying public opinion against her in any number of ways, they instead put her on tour? Brilliant!

Two movies, and the only person getting a sponsor package is Cat.

Nothing the main protagonist did in the entire movie meant anything at the end. Think about that.

How dumb is it to stop a rebellion by eliminating an entire district. It didn't work the first time, but it'll work the second time? Love the convenience of which ones are rebelling too. I'm sure the people in District 11 know what's coming.

Someone explain districts to me because the way they're setup in the films isn't fleshed out. As they stand, they seem moronic in their structure.

Did anyone else notice the racism in the film? An old black man holds up three fingers, and gets a bullet to the head for his trouble. A young white guy physically attacks a government officer, who also happens to be blood thirsty, and he gets lashes instead of death.

Peta's character is almost comically bad. He's just a walking plot device. Although, I'm willing to give Collins props if he symbolizes PETA since he's so toothless.

Actually, that does bring up another point, and maybe this one's on the film makers too, but the love triangle simply does not exist. The only way people can see a connection between Cat and/or Peta and/or Thor's little brother is if THEY are willing one there. Liam and JLaw have zero chemistry, and he's gotten about 4 minutes total screen time between two movies, so I'm not sure why we're supposed to give a fuck about him or believe in him having a romance with Cat.

End Spoilers

And BR wasn't that good.

That's simply laughable. Racist.

Edited By Leisher on 1394551085

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:21 am**

Tell me this, have you seen the first movie?

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:22 am**

You tell me since you're the one not reading posts.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:23 am**

I would guess no, since some of the things you asked were addressed in the first movie.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:33 am**

Like?

Heck of a discussion.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:44 pm**

I am going to start addressing your last post point by point, before you get a chance to respond. I am guessing you will have a response before I get through with mine.

Overview: the only similarity HG has to BR, big picture, is that it is kids deathmatching each other in an arena. BR did it because TEENS ARE BAD NOW, and may have done it before HG, but the ancient Romans had gladiatorial combat before BR. HG1 was, indeed, about the game, and the game was to keep the outlying districts clearly under the boot of the capitol. "Look, we can kill your children whenever we want and put it on TV and gamble on the winners and not even give a shit. We can make shit a whole lot worse than this, too. You have no hope of ever rising up against us." As far as I know BR had nothing to do with that kind of political maneuvering, it was, as I said, just a lesson to those goddam kids to stay out of trouble, or else. It was business as usual in D12, just another annual reaping, and just another day where they try to scrape together enough food to not starve and they know they never win so it all really sucks. But, Katniss volunteered for her little sister, a first for District 12 which never had a volunteer before, and that got everyones attention. Then she got assigned to Lenny Kravitz as her stylist, probably randomly but possibly on purpose, and he turned her into a symbol, the Girl on Fire, probably accidentally but possibly on purpose. Still probably going to get killed in the arena, but whatev. Peeps like an underdog. She is probably going to die but he did well by her.

But then she does well in the arena. She unknowingly sparks riots when she showed kindness to the little girl from D11. And Woody Harrelson, her mentor, gets sponsors (which are never fleshed out, one assumes it is a "Katniss received medicine, brought to you by the fine folks at Johnson Hovercraft!") by selling the angle of "young love against all odds," even though it is 80% contrived just to keep them alive. This directly saves hers and Peta's life at different times. Those 2 get to the end, they pull their suicide stunt, she calls the Game Master's bluff, they both get declared the winner (a first), and the Game Master gets to fall on his sword for it. President Jerkface (as my kid calls him) is sort of backed into a corner. The population of the capitol love Katniss and Peta, and districts are starting to riot over her, so he can't just have them shot without hurting his approval ratings, or whatever he thinks his problem would be. We don't know his motivations for keeping them alive, but the final shot of the movie you can clearly see he isn't happy about it and the gears are turning.

Second movie: I have only seen twice, so my insight may be a little less.

K&P are in the Victor's Village, but they still have to do victory tours, so they need to keep up the act. President Jerkface tells her, indirectly, you better convince the masses it is real, or you will be killed because if they are going to riot anyway then you might as well be dead. So the "romance" goes on. Peta knows she is conflicted, but he doesn't really want to die either, so you know. Gotta do what you gotta do.

Now, at this time there is a new Game Master, supposedly pulled out of retirement to replace the one who died last movie. We know by the end of the movie he is a rebel from the beginning, he is truly for keeping Katniss alive and a symbol of the rebellion. He straight-up tell Katniss early on that she inspired him to come out of retirement. President Jerkface lets the new GM know he pretty much wants her dead, because she has become a symbol of rebellion. The new GM talks him out of it, says, "Let's do it my way, my way is better, I'll destroy her as a symbol." He convinces President Jerkface to trust him completely in this matter.... the new GM sold him. President Jerkface, however, wants to send a message that even victors can be killed, because an incident during the clampdown on D12 showed victors standing up to the government on live TV. So, he straight-up alters the Quarter Quell.... a special year of the games that happen every 25 years, where some message is sent (Haymitch won the last QQ). One year had double tributes, for example, 4 from each district. I forget what I read in the book. But they QQs were designed from the beginning, but President Jerkface altered this one to get Katniss back into the arena and killed. As the only girl victor from 12 she was a lock. The Game Master put her in, but if you watch he keeps her alive. He also surrounded her with allies who were in on the escape plan. They never tell her because it is known she is always watched, which Haymitch demonstrates earlier in the movie taking her to a place with no bugs so he can lay truth on her.

Anyway, they get her out of the arena, half dead. She comes to, finds shit out, and they straight-up tell her she is not part of the plan, she is just the symbol people can unite behind. Yes, she doesn't actually do anything to affect the big picture beyond not dying... on TV. Peeps love her, and that is her role in what is happening. The brave face of rebellion. She doesn't like it, but we see her coming to terms with it and getting pissed off. Movie ends.

Now.

Explain to me the logic behind the 75th games. Here's an event used to keep the people in line, and the "brilliant" dictator thinks it's wise to undermine the credibility of it by forcing past winners back into the arena? That's the exact opposite of what any person trying to maintain power would do.

I explained the Quarter Quell, but it certainly did backfire on President Jerkface, didn't it. I honestly just think he hated Katniss so much.... and wanted her dead in the arena.... that he didn't see it coming. His closest adviser may have seen it coming, the new Game Master, but we now know that he was working for the other team the entire time and giving bad advice. And really, "I'm just sad because of the baby" really was a stroke of genius. It turned the population of the capitol against the games.

And the "true" reason for said games was even worse. "Ok gentlemen, we have one mission, and that's to keep Cat alive. Our plan is to put her in as much danger as possible, but don't worry, we control the arena although we won't do anything to actually keep the arena's dangers from killing her..."

Well, that's what they did. President Jerkface had her, period. She would never be able to escape, basically, the jail she was in. Maybe there was a plan to snag her for the resistance before D12 got locked down, but then she got snagged for the QQ and they had to change plans. They put a tracker in her arm in the arena, but they had a plan to remove it right before the big escape. They didn't get Peta in time.

This government has ALL the power, yet instead of simply pushing the symbol for rebellion into a corner or swaying public opinion against her in any number of ways, they instead put her on tour? Brilliant!

The government has the power but isn't all powerful. Rebellion in the districts means goods and electricity are not flowing. Capitol can not stand alone. They put her on tour because victors go on tour, it's what they do. The GM, of course, was guiding that decision. He had President Jerkface foxed from the beginning. Then he had to go and OD on drugs... dumbass.

Two movies, and the only person getting a sponsor package is Cat.

We only ever see Kat's point of view in either movie. We don't know the others didn't get care packages or not.

Nothing the main protagonist did in the entire movie meant anything at the end. Think about that.

This is absolutely correct, and insightful. She was just an accidental symbol of rebellion, and then she was made into an official symbol of the rebellion. The next movie is very different from the others, and we will probably see her "put in her place" as just a symbol, and she is supposed to just speak when spoken to. But we know how stubborn she is, don't we.

How dumb is it to stop a rebellion by eliminating an entire district. It didn't work the first time, but it'll work the second time? Love the convenience of which ones are rebelling too. I'm sure the people in District 11 know what's coming.

It didn't work the first time because D13 made nukes and threatened to use them. There was a secret peace treaty made with the capitol just telling them, "Keep your head down or else." I honestly wonder what they are going to do for power now that they destroyed their coal supply chain. One assumes they still needed it. As for the people of D11, they rebelled in the first movie after Rue died. That wasn't just a minor thing... full on rebellion. You notice how Effie (their peahen PR manager) was surprised at how much like a prison it was when they got off the train? Direct result of the riot. Capitol locked their asses down, and had zero tolerance for any act of sedition. They were probably specifically told to not do the salute, but then grandpa did anyway because FUCK YOU CAPITOL, and he took a bullet in the grape for it.

And not all districts are rebelling, which we will see in the next movies. Some are less oppressed than others, which is a small spoiler, but should seem obvious.

Someone explain districts to me because the way they're setup in the films isn't fleshed out. As they stand, they seem moronic in their structure.

I don't recall the books explaining much of the layout, but they did make it clear that whatever event happened that wiped out the country, it took out most of the people, too. It is clearly mentioned that war is bad because there just aren't that many people left to begin with. As for district layout, not really sure. We know for sure that 12 is mining coal in Appalachia, and Capital is somewhere near Denver, and one assumes 11, which does agriculture and has lots of black people (and cotton, I noticed in one scene), is somewhere in the South. But that's all I recall. I want to say 13 may have been near NYC, but I may have dreamed that or something. But their economy IS very tenuous to be segmented like that... but as I said, not many peeps left. Gotta specialize or something.

Did anyone else notice the racism in the film? An old black man holds up three fingers, and gets a bullet to the head for his trouble. A young white guy physically attacks a government officer, who also happens to be blood thirsty, and he gets lashes instead of death.

As I said, D11 was already on notice. As for why Gale didn't get summarily executed by the new guy looking to set a bloodthirsty example, not entirely sure.... I guess it's the old, "But why a spoon, cousin/because it will hurt more." I guess flaying the flesh off his back in public lasts longer in the memory than of a quick bullet in the head.

Peta's character is almost comically bad. He's just a walking plot device. Although, I'm willing to give Collins props if he symbolizes PETA since he's so toothless.

I don't know what to say about Peta. He is milquetoast, and I never cared for him much as a character, but there he is. His only redeeming quality seems to be that he honestly is in love with our symbol, and will give his own life if it means saving hers. I guess that makes him good or something. I dunno.

Actually, that does bring up another point, and maybe this one's on the film makers too, but the love triangle simply does not exist. The only way people can see a connection between Cat and/or Peta and/or Thor's little brother is if THEY are willing one there. Liam and JLaw have zero chemistry, and he's gotten about 4 minutes total screen time between two movies, so I'm not sure why we're supposed to give a fuck about him or believe in him having a romance with Cat.

The books actually spend very little time on Kat's thought processes regarding boys and romance, which makes them so nice to read. She grew up with hunky Gale, they have a lot in common, and if left to their own devices, would have gotten married. But then she got reaped, and had to stay alive with Peta who actually had a crush on her. I liked the friend zone analogy in the video above, pretty much accurate. But, Gale didn't like all the fake kissy face which kept them alive, so obviously he is going to focus his attention elsewhere, which we should see more of in the next movie.

Possibly my longest forum post ever. I should proof it before I post but prolly won't.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:30 pm**

I read the books before the movies were much more than a thought. They were okay. Did the government make bad choices? Yes, and every tyrannical government that was destroyed from within has done so as well all throughout time. Hindsight is 20/20 and all.

This wasn't great literature. This wasn't someone's doctorial thesis.

Going back to the original complaint that the story is ripped off from Battle Royale... I read all that when people were talking about the books. I read all that when they were filming the first movie. I read all that when they released the first movie. Now I get to hear all that yet again when the second movie was released. And you know what? I'm pretty sure I'll get to hear all that when they release the third and fourth movies.

ALL RIGHT! I GET IT! The woman ripped off your beloved book/movie/whatever. ENOUGH ALREADY! It's like reading the Facebook posts of a bunch of seventh grade girls.

(not directed towards forum members)

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:02 pm**

Awesome post. Ok, I'm not posting anything else until I finish with this, so anything that falls between your post and this one, I never saw.

I am going to start addressing your last post point by point, before you get a chance to respond. I am guessing you will have a response before I get through with mine.

So far you're 0-1.

Overview: the only similarity HG has to BR, big picture, is that it is kids deathmatching each other in an arena.

I thought we weren't doing the HG-BR comparison? By the way, qualifying it with "big picture" is immediately a red flag.

BR did it because TEENS ARE BAD NOW, and may have done it before HG, but the ancient Romans had gladiatorial combat before BR. HG1 was, indeed, about the game, and the game was to keep the outlying districts clearly under the boot of the capitol. "Look, we can kill your children whenever we want and put it on TV and gamble on the winners and not even give a shit. We can make shit a whole lot worse than this, too. You have no hope of ever rising up against us." As far as I know BR had nothing to do with that kind of political maneuvering, it was, as I said, just a lesson to those goddam kids to stay out of trouble, or else. It was business as usual in D12, just another annual reaping, and just another day where they try to scrape together enough food to not starve and they know they never win so it all really sucks.

I honestly didn't want to continue the HG vs. BR discussion, but since you went on in length about it, let's clear things up. From the BR wiki:

Battle Royale takes place in 1997 in an alternate timeline—Japan is a member region of an authoritarian state known as the Republic of Greater East Asia (大東亜共和国?, Dai Tōa Kyōwakoku). Under the guise of a "study trip", a group of students from Shiroiwa Junior High School (城岩中学校 Shiroiwa Chūgakkō?) in the fictional town of Shiroiwa, in Kagawa Prefecture, are gassed on a bus. They awaken in the Okishima Island School on Okishima, an isolated, evacuated island southwest of Shodoshima (modeled after the island of Ogijima). They learn that they have been placed in an event called the Program. Officially a military research project, it is a means of terrorizing the population, of creating enough paranoia to make organized insurgency impossible.

The first Program was held in 1947. Fifty third-year junior high school classes are selected (prior to 1950, forty-seven classes were selected) annually to participate in the Program for research purposes. The students from a single class are isolated and are required to fight the other members of their class to the death. The Program ends when only one student remains, with that student being declared the winner and receiving a government funded pension.

So yeah, she even stole the big picture from BR...

It's interesting though because you're not the only person I've seen make that defense of HG. I've seen many other folks claim the overall theme is different. I wonder if there was a concentrated effort to misinform folks to try and deflect that criticism.

Anyway, combine that with the link I posted before that displays many of the smaller "similarities" and I think it gets very difficult to argue that HG isn't a direct rip off of BR.

But, Katniss volunteered for her little sister, a first for District 12 which never had a volunteer before, and that got everyones attention. Then she got assigned to Lenny Kravitz as her stylist, probably randomly but possibly on purpose, and he turned her into a symbol, the Girl on Fire, probably accidentally but possibly on purpose. Still probably going to get killed in the arena, but whatev. Peeps like an underdog. She is probably going to die but he did well by her.

Actually, I'll make the argument for the author that the rebellion assigned her Kravitz. She's the only one who showed any spark of life, and so they used him to make her into a statement. Nobody knew what she'd become, but their initial objective was to instill a concept of dissent.

She unknowingly sparks riots when she showed kindness to the little girl from D11.

This part bugged me a lot. I think it's where a lot of the logic behind this concept falls apart. This is the 74th year and nobody has ever helped another out in the games before? Really? Also, an act of kindness from one child to another is what sparks riots? Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye as the government takes their children away to certain death?

At one point in CF, Thor's little brother says to Cat that they should just run off into the woods together. Why the fuck wouldn't every single person with a child do the same for the past 74 years? People do not just sit back and relax while their children are murdered. Who the fuck wants to life their life knowing they were too cowardly to even speak up to try and save their child's life.

I apply the same criticism to BR, but at least they had the sense to make the abductions occur outside of the parents' vision.

And Woody Harrelson, her mentor,

The drunk who didn't give a fuck about either of them.

gets sponsors

This part is another huge complaint of mine. This concept was not fleshed out at all, and the fact that only she gets help is ridiculous. If the games were such a big deal then every player should have been getting help. Hell, even if the help was only coming from gamblers!

Those 2 get to the end, they pull their suicide stunt, she calls the Game Master's bluff, they both get declared the winner (a first), and the Game Master gets to fall on his sword for it.

This is actually another win for BR. Their game has rules in place to prevent such defiance. They have no problem killing all participants, and declaring that nobody won.

The population of the capitol love Katniss and Peta, and districts are starting to riot over her, so he can't just have them shot without hurting his approval ratings, or whatever he thinks his problem would be. We don't know his motivations for keeping them alive, but the final shot of the movie you can clearly see he isn't happy about it and the gears are turning.

Yep. No issue there. How they deal with it in the sequel...

K&P are in the Victor's Village, but they still have to do victory tours, so they need to keep up the act.

Why do they "need" to do victory tours? Here's a little bitch who is becoming a symbol of freedom. You go get her mom and her sister, and whomever Peeta loves and you put them at gunpoint. Then you tell the two "love birds" to stage a very public breakup. Cancel the tour, and have one of them "commit suicide" over the breakup. Or you could make them act like complete jackasses or their families die horrible deaths.

My point is for someone in charge of maintaining power, Jack Bauer's dad sure does suck at his job.

Oh, and shame on you for making this your kid's only exposure to Donald Sutherland.

Now, at this time there is a new Game Master, supposedly pulled out of retirement to replace the one who died last movie. We know by the end of the movie he is a rebel from the beginning, he is truly for keeping Katniss alive and a symbol of the rebellion. He straight-up tell Katniss early on that she inspired him to come out of retirement.

Pretty convenient, but that's ok for story telling. However, how do you keep someone alive by sticking them into a hostile environment with 20+ other people who want to kill you?

He convinces President Jerkface to trust him completely in this matter.... the new GM sold him. President Jerkface, however, wants to send a message that even victors can be killed, because an incident during the clampdown on D12 showed victors standing up to the government on live TV. So, he straight-up alters the Quarter Quell.... a special year of the games that happen every 25 years, where some message is sent (Haymitch won the last QQ). One year had double tributes, for example, 4 from each district. I forget what I read in the book. But they QQs were designed from the beginning, but President Jerkface altered this one to get Katniss back into the arena and killed.

Again, more stuff that any competent dictator would have handled.

You know for a dictator desperately trying to maintain his grip on power, he sure is lax in dealing with his biggest threat.

He might as well have been stroking a white cat and explained his schemes to Catness before sticking her into the arena.

The Game Master put her in, but if you watch he keeps her alive. He also surrounded her with allies who were in on the escape plan.

I'll point out that her and her allies only survived the mist because she happened to wake up just in time, and the old woman sacrificed herself. So the GM must have made saving her a secondary priority.

Why didn't that mist hurt any other organic material?

Onto the point-counterpoint...

I explained the Quarter Quell, but it certainly did backfire on President Jerkface, didn't it. I honestly just think he hated Katniss so much.... and wanted her dead in the arena.... that he didn't see it coming. His closest adviser may have seen it coming, the new Game Master, but we now know that he was working for the other team the entire time and giving bad advice.

I covered this above.

And really, "I'm just sad because of the baby" really was a stroke of genius. It turned the population of the capitol against the games.

Again, this just painted Sutherland as a moron. He had the power to immediately stop things. Declare that he didn't know, and pull Catness out. Everyone's happy! Meanwhile, he could tell Catness that she's going to sit in solitary and watch Peeta die in the games or he'll announce that the person replacing her will be the last name picked for an HG event, which was her sister's. Boom! Peeta's brilliant stroke just got him killed, and made Catness a permanent puppet.

Well, that's what they did. President Jerkface had her, period. She would never be able to escape, basically, the jail she was in. Maybe there was a plan to snag her for the resistance before D12 got locked down, but then she got snagged for the QQ and they had to change plans. They put a tracker in her arm in the arena, but they had a plan to remove it right before the big escape.

Covered this earlier.

They didn't get Peta in time.

This guy is a Clark Kent without powers level of pussy.

The government has the power but isn't all powerful. Rebellion in the districts means goods and electricity are not flowing. Capitol can not stand alone. They put her on tour because victors go on tour, it's what they do. The GM, of course, was guiding that decision. He had President Jerkface foxed from the beginning. Then he had to go and OD on drugs... dumbass.

Lots of logic flaws going on in the story at this point. And in one person's personal life...

They can pull her from tour using the examples I mentioned.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman's role is easily one of the most convenient I've ever seen. A retired GM who just happens to be the one they brought back (because nobody was training for the job?), who just happens to be a rebel, and who just happens to be able to quickly concoct a scheme that fools the president and all of his advisers. And they had a fucking year to plan the 75th games!

Beyond that, Rebellion in the districts does mean goods and electricity not flowing. Each specializes in something. So why would you wipe out one of them? You just lost whatever it was they provided. In the case of D12, that's coal.

We only ever see Kat's point of view in either movie. We don't know the others didn't get care packages or not.

Fair point.

This is absolutely correct, and insightful. She was just an accidental symbol of rebellion, and then she was made into an official symbol of the rebellion. The next movie is very different from the others, and we will probably see her "put in her place" as just a symbol, and she is supposed to just speak when spoken to. But we know how stubborn she is, don't we.

And that's fine because nobody puts baby in a corner.

I honestly wonder what they are going to do for power now that they destroyed their coal supply chain. One assumes they still needed it.

Ha! I just read this. See? Stupid writing. This is not how good leaders maintain power!

As for the people of D11, they rebelled in the first movie after Rue died. That wasn't just a minor thing... full on rebellion. You notice how Effie (their peahen PR manager) was surprised at how much like a prison it was when they got off the train? Direct result of the riot. Capitol locked their asses down, and had zero tolerance for any act of sedition. They were probably specifically told to not do the salute, but then grandpa did anyway because FUCK YOU CAPITOL, and he took a bullet in the grape for it.

Fair point.

And not all districts are rebelling, which we will see in the next movies. Some are less oppressed than others, which is a small spoiler, but should seem obvious.

Why oppress any unless you're trying to get overthrown?

It is so much easier to give people some freedom, and let them use it to imprison themselves.

I don't know what to say about Peta. He is milquetoast, and I never cared for him much as a character, but there he is. His only redeeming quality seems to be that he honestly is in love with our symbol, and will give his own life if it means saving hers. I guess that makes him good or something. I dunno.

I will say this for him: The guy playing him looks genuinely unhappy. I don't blame him.

The books actually spend very little time on Kat's thought processes regarding boys and romance, which makes them so nice to read. She grew up with hunky Gale, they have a lot in common, and if left to their own devices, would have gotten married. But then she got reaped, and had to stay alive with Peta who actually had a crush on her. I liked the friend zone analogy in the video above, pretty much accurate. But, Gale didn't like all the fake kissy face which kept them alive, so obviously he is going to focus his attention elsewhere, which we should see more of in the next movie.

What bugs me is the half-baked romance that was marketed to the people. Why the fuck would they give a shit if they're banging or not? That was a genuinely female concept and story line.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:17 pm**

I am going to start addressing your last post point by point, before you get a chance to respond. I am guessing you will have a response before I get through with mine.

So far you're 0-1.

But.... you did respond before I got my post finished.

I honestly didn't want to continue the HG vs. BR discussion, but since you went on in length about it, let's clear things up. From the BR wiki:

In my above long post, I attempted to not include any info from the book that wasn't in the movie, and I didn't have too because there isn't much in the books that didn't get covered in the movies. I may have pulled a book anecdote to expand some point, I don't even remember. Anyway, none of the stuff about BR you posted was int he movie... was it? We didn't get much exposition aside from what we saw the kids going through (that I recall). I don't remember a thing about the government situation aside from it must be pretty harsh if they are deathmatching kids. I could be remembering wrong, has been a couple years since I saw the movie.

It's interesting though because you're not the only person I've seen make that defense of HG. I've seen many other folks claim the overall theme is different. I wonder if there was a concentrated effort to misinform folks to try and deflect that criticism.

In my case, it's just because I don't know any of that world-building backstory because I never saw the sequel and never read the books.

Actually, I'll make the argument for the author that the rebellion assigned her Kravitz.

Very possibly. It seems to be left open for interpretation at this point.

This is the 74th year and nobody has ever helped another out in the games before? Really? Also, an act of kindness from one child to another is what sparks riots? Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye as the government takes their children away to certain death?

Who knows? It was never hinted at, before. All the limited footage of previous games we ever see or hear about is all pretty brutal. My guess is that for the most part, the youngest, cutest kids all get killed in the initial melee at the cornucopia. The audience, and possible allies, never have time to bond with them because they are out immediately.

At one point in CF, Thor's little brother says to Cat that they should just run off into the woods together. Why the fuck wouldn't every single person with a child do the same for the past 74 years? People do not just sit back and relax while their children are murdered. Who the fuck wants to life their life knowing they were too cowardly to even speak up to try and save their child's life.

And I wouldn't say that no one bats an eye, I just think the population is completely beaten down, they have no hope (which President Jerkface says he deliberately stifles), and one would think that families that disappear either get found and publicly killed, or their former neighbors get killed, or whatever. One assumes there is more than a single non-functional electric fence keeping them in line. Honestly don't remember what the book said about that.

(Woody Harrelson) The drunk who didn't give a fuck about either of them.

He did give a fuck... he gave too much of a fuck. This is why he "self medicates," as he put it. He started right after he won his own games by killing a bunch of people. He stays numb so he doesn't have to deal with the knowledge of what he did. Helping K&P is partial redemption, for him, unfortunately he learned that the lives he was able to save did not make up for the lives he took.

Why do they "need" to do victory tours? Here's a little bitch who is becoming a symbol of freedom. You go get her mom and her sister, and whomever Peeta loves and you put them at gunpoint. Then you tell the two "love birds" to stage a very public breakup. Cancel the tour, and have one of them "commit suicide" over the breakup. Or you could make them act like complete jackasses or their families die horrible deaths.

My point is for someone in charge of maintaining power, Jack Bauer's dad sure does suck at his job.

Well, be that as it may. He wasn't a moron, he was ruthless enough to gain power (touched on by showing us blood in his mouth.... interesting, eh?) but hey, he was getting old, I guess. Maybe not as sharp as he used to be. That and the bad advice disguised as good advice.

Now, at this time there is a new Game Master, supposedly pulled out of retirement to replace the one who died last movie. We know by the end of the movie he is a rebel from the beginning, he is truly for keeping Katniss alive and a symbol of the rebellion. He straight-up tell Katniss early on that she inspired him to come out of retirement.

Pretty convenient, but that's ok for story telling. However, how do you keep someone alive by sticking them into a hostile environment with 20+ other people who want to kill you?

Well.... I sort of envision him and the rebellion seeing an opportunity to get back into the inner circle, and him saying, "Hey Donald Southerland my old comrade, want me to step in until you find a permanent replacement? I'd love to help out." And I don't think he put her back in the games, I think she was going to get killed no matter what, the president put her there, and the GM was just reacting to events as they played out. I envision the 0lan to alter the QQ came pretty fast after the 74th games, and the GM had to design and deal with it. Otherwise, who come back as GM to begin with?

Again, this just painted Sutherland as a moron. He had the power to immediately stop things. Declare that he didn't know, and pull Catness out. Everyone's happy! Meanwhile, he could tell Catness that she's going to sit in solitary and watch Peeta die in the games or he'll announce that the person replacing her will be the last name picked for an HG event, which was her sister's. Boom! Peeta's brilliant stroke just got him killed, and made Catness a permanent puppet.

Again, you show that you would make an excellent brutal dictator. I have nothing to add.

I'll point out that her and her allies only survived the mist because she happened to wake up just in time, and the old woman sacrificed herself. So the GM must have made saving her a secondary priority.

Welp, there were some close calls. All in all it was still a dangerous arena. Had to be deadly enough to keep the careers busy, I guess. I don't know how they could fake that just to keep her safe..... although, when the spinning was going on, the GM was watching her symbol and as soon as she fell in the water, he stopped the spinning so she wouldn't drown. So there's that.

A retired GM who just happens to be the one they brought back (because nobody was training for the job?), who just happens to be a rebel...

As I said, I envision him volunteering to come back. just for the sole purpose of controlling things.

What bugs me is the half-baked romance that was marketed to the people. Why the fuck would they give a shit if they're banging or not? That was a genuinely female concept and story line.

I think only people in the capitol were fooled, because they were stupid. The outlying people in the districts seemed to know what was really going on, even when K&P were reading the prepared statements about how great life is and how wonderful it was to be a citizen of Panem.

"Panem," if memory serves, is Latin for Bread... one assumes the author's intent was to imply "Bread and Circuses," from the Roman days when their civilization was in decline.

No time to proofread. If I said something weird just read my mind to glean my true intent.

Posted: **Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:21 pm**

OH! The GM also told President Jerkface that he would destroy her as a symbol by getting her to the end, to the point where she had to kill allies to stay alive. I guess the plan was to make sure she got to that point.... but now we know the plan also included rescuing her at that point. So.

Posted: **Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:09 pm**

I forgot all about this thread. Too busy to post today, but I did see this, and wanted to again state what a pussy Peeta is...

Posted: **Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:33 pm**

They are going to cgi Dead Phillip Seymour Hoffman into his unfilmed scenes.

http://nypost.com/2014....r-games

Posted: **Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:41 pm**

GORDON wrote:They are going to cgi Dead Phillip Seymour Hoffman into his unfilmed scenes.

http://nypost.com/2014....r-games

I can see the headlines:

"Posthumous casting gives movie a real shot in the arm" or perhaps "Next Hunger Games film will introduce new heroin."

Edited By Malcolm on 1396320152

Posted: **Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:18 pm**

Will the movie now qualify for nomination for Best reAnimation?

Posted: **Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:48 pm**

First teaser trailer from the next movie.

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/7dCB2U9lX48?version=3 ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/7dCB2U9lX48?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Posted: **Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:03 pm**

interesting marketing website

Posted: **Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:07 pm**

TPRJones wrote:interesting marketing website

Ha, a dot pn.

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