“We are writing from the Amazon Associates Program to notify you that your Associates account has been closed as of June 26, 2009,” reads and e-mail Amazon sent to its affiliates today. “This is a direct result of the unconstitutional tax collection scheme expected to be passed any day now by the North Carolina state legislature (the General Assembly) and signed by the governor.”
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"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Amazon does not use any resources provided by the local state government. And yet they would be expected to pay for them? That's called "theft". They use no public roads (delivery companies pay for those through gasoline taxes and vehicle registration payments). They use no police services (they have no physical presence in NC so they have nothing to protect there). They can't take advantage of NC education (since they don't live there, their children can't go to school there). And yet NC thinks they have the right to shake down Amazon? Every honest men hopes this withdrawal of Amazon affiliation takes as heavy toll on NC economy as possible. This type of punishment of thieves would only be just.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
GORDON wrote:Best explanation for these laws I've ever seen:
Amazon does not use any resources provided by the local state government. And yet they would be expected to pay for them? That's called "theft". They use no public roads (delivery companies pay for those through gasoline taxes and vehicle registration payments). They use no police services (they have no physical presence in NC so they have nothing to protect there). They can't take advantage of NC education (since they don't live there, their children can't go to school there). And yet NC thinks they have the right to shake down Amazon? Every honest men hopes this withdrawal of Amazon affiliation takes as heavy toll on NC economy as possible. This type of punishment of thieves would only be just.
Good quote but the tax is paid by the consumer or passed to the consumer and that consumer is benefitting from everything stated.
But it isn't really what's going on in NC. Amazon has cut off affiliates there because the NC legislature is trying to decide that affiliates = physical presence in the state, for taxes. So, instead of giving in to that bullshit, amazon decided, "ok, fine, fuck you, do without our business with your affiliates at all."
If NC wants to fuck with consumption taxes, fine. Enforce consumption taxes on top of income taxes on top of every other tax. I still applaud amazon for their actions, and fuck the tax-hungry governments.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
It's not just a physical presence per se, it's nexus. Which is more complicated.
A little bit of history helps put this law into context. The Supreme Court has held that a state can only impose sales or use tax-collection obligations on an out-of-state retailer if the retailers has a "substantial nexus" with the state (the Quill decision). Nexus occurs from a sufficient physical presence, which can be an office or warehouse, but physical presence can also derive from soliciting a state's consumers via sales representatives located in the state. However, it can't be just any sales rep, according to another Supreme Court case -- in-state representatives must be "significantly associated with the taxpayer's ability to establish and maintain a market in the state"
At any rate, I agree with "fuck them"
I had a political survey the other day about the funding gap in NC, and nowhere was "reduce pensions" or "outsource shit the government sucks at" or anything like that. It was all cut education, raise taxes, or cut programs for the needy.
However, it can't be just any sales rep, according to another Supreme Court case -- in-state representatives must be "significantly associated with the taxpayer's ability to establish and maintain a market in the state"
It appears that before the age of computing, the logistics of taxing out-of-state retailers prohibited it. After a bit of Googling, it looks like that Quill case they mentioned was the state of N. Dakota trying to argue that floppy disks constitute a "physical presence." The state Supreme Court actually fucking agreed. The federal Supreme Court disagreed w\ the state.
The argument of the tax proponents is that since modern computers can easily handle all the bookkeeping bullshit, then the tax should be instituted ... because it's a new tax, I guess. Maybe if the states weren't run by lazy, corrupt, incompetent bureaucrats, they'd've more cash left over & wouldn't need to chisel extra from the general populous. Honestly, this is sort of shit that would count as racketeering if anyone else was trying it. But since we elected them, I suppose it's all good.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
in-state representatives must be "significantly associated with the taxpayer's ability to establish and maintain a market in the state"
Sounds to me like this new tax law is unconstitutional according to established precedents, then. There's nothing significant about Amazon's need to have associates physically located in North Carolina in order to connect with customers in North Carolina. Even if associate traffic is a major factor in Amazon connecting with customers, the physical location of those associates has nothing to do with the physical location of the customers.
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"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
I have X amount of dollars I spend each month on frivolous items on amazon. X is a constant. If I have to pay 6%ish tax on the items I purchase, I am going to have to buy fewer items to account for that money. Instead of purchasing several items on the open market, I am buying fewer items, but the government gets the same amount of money. I wonder who I will be putting out of work. It makes no damned sense at all.
Dare I say the stage is being set for the complete dismantling of free capitalism in this country? But I wouldn't want to sound crazy. It isn't like the federal government has taken over any huge car companies or banks or mortgage houses and is working on getting control of energy generation markets, or anything. Obama wouldn't want to meddle.
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"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Maybe they'll pass a new law that if you do what Amazon is doing, restructuring to avoid taxes, they will be declared terrorist organizations and be "legally" seized by government... though I know how far fetched the idea is of the federal government taking over private companies.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
“I am very concerned about the lack of taxes collected on all remote sales,” Rep. Steven M. Costantino, chair of the House Finance Committee, told Providence Business News earlier this year, referring to purchases made outside of brick-and-mortar stores.
Fuck you. Burn in hell, you commie bastard.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I just made an order on amazon, and 3 items were from their resellers, not directly from amazon. Those 3 items had sales tax applied, and none of the 3 were based in Ohio, nor do I think they have a presence (2 or the 3 were marketplace sellers... definitely no presence in Ohio). The amazon-direct items had no sales tax applied for an Ohio order.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."