Leisher, I don't disagree with much of anything you posted. Except for the militarization of the police. That bothers me a lot more than it does you. The reason being that there's a reason our military isn't supposed to be operating on US soil. It's so it would become clear if they were to become an occupying force. Along with all the PC BS that's being thrust onto the police force, add military hardware and we still end up in a police state. Just one with more middle men.
I didn't say they should have it. I said, on my list of things to fix that isn't #1.
The problem is that it seems as a rule they now enter way too many situations as if it were a dangerous situation. Someone needs to tell them that crime is at its lowest level in decades and that they don't need to treat every citizen they interact with as a scumbag perp.
A lot of them do, that's true. This needs to be corrected with training, psychological evaluations, etc.
I've long said that by my experience about 1/3rd of cops are actually good and competent public servants that do a good job, about 1/3rd used to be good but have had it beaten out of them by a shit system and no longer care, and about 1/3rd are so awful they should never have been given a badge. I stand by those ratios. But any time someone is given extra-legal powers over other citizens, we should be 99.99% certain that we have chosen someone who will use those powers well and only when absolutely necessary, not 30% certain.
I don't think those numbers are way out of the ballpark. The most concerning number is the 1/3rd that have been beaten down. It's something most people don't understand or even think about when they criticize police. It's a job nobody wants, everyone hates, pays shit, and you're constantly in danger. Go do it for a decade and see how your attitude is after that. Hell, phone tech support folks have an average job expectancy of 6 months because it eats away at you. They're not getting shot at.
PBS did a documentary years ago, maybe in the 80s, that followed a young and extremely liberal guy as he was becoming a police officer. He was the "love everyone", all people are good, etc. type of hippie. As you can imagine, years as a cop basically reversed his attitude on everything.
There needs to be programs setup to spot guys who start spiraling and pull them out before they become a headline.
Personally I have no power to oust the local Chief of Police if he's shitty. Do you?
For cities it's more difficult because you are essentially pleading to the mayor or council.
For smaller villages, townships, etc. it's the trustees you're after.
It's all about the politicians. They're the ones who fire chiefs and appoint them. The chiefs control the department.
Sheriffs you can obviously vote for and against.
I absolutely agree that the core problem is management, but after decades of bullshit management we have a very large percentage of bullshit cops to show for it. And along with the management I also do blame the shitty cops when they do wrong. Clearly I think that percentage is much higher than you do.
No, I just agreed with your percentages.
On the whole I agree with your main points, though. Although I don't think the word bigotry can be applied, because you can only be bigoted against something about a person that they are born with and can't change, such as skin color or racial group or sexual preferences, etc. I don't know of anyone that was born with a badge pinned to their chest. Being a cop is a choice
So is being Catholic or a Democrat, and since a person can be bigoted against them...
I think more evil has been done by people "just following orders" than by people who were just bad eggs with a gun.
I absolutely agree with that.
However, if the orders are the problem, wouldn't it be more logical to resolve that issue at the source of the orders rather than at the enforcement level? Not saying the enforcement level shouldn't take criticism, but they certainly shouldn't take all the blame.
By the way, cops don't get any credit when they do stand up and fight back. Former mayor of Toledo...the one that was the fire chief...I'm completely blanking on his name. Anyway, he said during a press conference that if people who get the red light tickets didn't pay them, the Toledo police would be booting their cars and towing them. Toledo Chief of police Navarre responded publicly with "Yeah, we're not doing that. My officers have better things to do than enforce unconstitutional traffic cameras."
Every cop I know hates those traffic cameras. They believe they infringe on people's privacy and they make intersections unsafe. They will tell you that it's added more work to their job too as they're responding to increased accidents at those intersections.
Hire out of state independent boards to watch over police departments with random investigations, drug/alcohol tests, background checks, etc.
Honestly, I love this idea.
Another problem people have with cops is... isnt it pretty much a given that cops wont rat on each other, they universally hate their Internal Affairs department that roots out bad cops, they all circle the wagons when they have to, and when bad cops do bad things, isn't the rule of thumb "paid time off?"
People hate all that shit. You tell us that it's only a few bad apples, but when the entire barrel won't out the bad apples, the whole barrel is tainted.
You watch too many cop shows on TV. And honestly, that's part of the problem: perception. The whole IA vs other cops is mostly Hollywood bullshit.
Of course there are cops who won't arrest other cops, although note that there's a limit there. Just because one cop doesn't arrest another for DUI doesn't mean he won't arrest him for shoplifting, rape, etc.
And hell yes there are cops that arrest cops. Cops get arrested all the time for assaults, DUIs, etc. just like the rest of us.
Although, I'll readily point out that where cops do give each other breaks is in traffic violations. It's rare for a cop to give another cop a speeding ticket.
As for the "paid time off" thing, that's not exclusively a cop thing. That's more a government job thing. Don't forget that police departments are typically union. Besides, paid time off is typical while your shooting or whatever is under investigation. If there's punishment that isn't termination, then they get unpaid time off just like other government/union workers.
One thing that has become pretty clear from comments I'm seeing and hearing (at work and elsewhere, not hear) is that the police are in a no-win situation here.
Basically, yes.
Malcolm, I didn't read your post. I apologize, but even before your trip to Iowa you were irrational in your hatred of cops. I'm sure your recent experience has done nothing but make your attitude worse. I honestly considered it, but I just kept thinking it'd be like trying to convince Fred Phelps that homosexuals aren't that bad.
Perhaps you posted something of an apology yourself regarding wishing death upon my friends and family, and you then just wanted to debate good cops/bad cops/our perception of them, etc. like the rest of us, I don't know. Perhaps you go on a tirade wishing horrible things upon me because I dare take a stance other than "all cops must die". Again, I don't know.
I just thought it best to avoid your comments.“Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole.” - Dr Thomas Sowell
