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Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:20 pm**

I know.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:21 pm**

GORDON wrote:I do.

A ban, no? That's a bit harsh. Eligibility for public office is another matter when your life's rules come from the almighty, who also conveniently asks you to believe in a shitload of impossible things that happened mysteriously in the past but have dropped off in frequency since the modern age started ramping up.

Edited By Malcolm on 1458840094

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:22 pm**

Leisher wrote:
If you want to ban all people professing any religion
To be clear, I don't.
I'm not in favor of a massive ban on Muslims or anything like that,
However, the burying our heads in sand and pretending __ in certain groups is an anomaly has to end.

In related news and in the wake of the Brussels bombings, Poland tells refugees to fuck off.

I know. I was just making it clear for anyone who read my point.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:42 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
GORDON wrote:I do.
A ban, no? That's a bit harsh. Eligibility for public office is another matter when your life's rules come from the almighty, who also conveniently asks you to believe in a shitload of impossible things that happened mysteriously in the past but have dropped off in frequency since the modern age started ramping up.

I think it's a public health issue.

That part in Contact always irritates me, whats her face is being interviewed to get the seat on the Machine, and her bfriend asks her if she believes in God. She pretty much says no. One of the panelists asks, "Are you saying that 90% of the human race suffers from a delusion?" And I wish she'd just have said, "Hell yes I do."

And then there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:51 pm**

<s>That part in</s> Contact always irritates me

Me, too.

...there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.

That applies to any number of psychos. If someone feels the need to lash out at everyone else, any excuse will do.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:23 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
<s>That part in</s> Contact always irritates me
Me, too.

...there's the public health issue of all the severed limbs when the hardcore members of the faith make sure to pack their bombs with nails and broken glass.
That applies to any number of psychos. If someone feels the need to lash out at everyone else, any excuse will do.

It's unfortunate their clerics are so enabling of those psychos.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:23 pm**

It's unfortunate that death and the false promise of a paradise afterlife seems preferable to actual life in a number of circumstances. The middlemen you're describing are simply better at harnessing that frustration that anyone else at the moment. Some of them ask for your life, some your death, others money. Fucktards of that ilk wield faith like a sword and shield.

Edited By Malcolm on 1458854878

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:44 pm**

It's all bullshit, and your defense of bullshit is bullshit.

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:04 pm**

GORDON wrote:It's all bullshit, and your defense of bullshit is bullshit.

You're proposing you can win against the 90%? You objectively have no way to know if there's a god/jeebus/FSM/super alien race that is for all intents and purposes a supreme being relative to you. If someone feels like believing in it and dedicating some of their life to it, within reason, I'm not arguing. Mentally ill or not, they have a nonzero chance of being right. Your assertion they're absolutely wrong is bullshit.

Edited By Malcolm on 1458867877

Posted: **Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:06 pm**

They are absolutely wrong.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:55 am**

I won't say they are absolutely wrong, but I feel any religion is about as likely to be true as there is to be a giant angry Lobster in orbit around Saturn that created us and shapes our destinies. That's no less absurd and no more likely than any other spiritual crap. But anything is possible.

Possible or not I see no need to list all the infinite possibilities - including all religions - that are unlikely to the point of absurdity.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:43 am**

I mean I don't have the logic skillz to prove that I'm right but I feel very smug about the fact no one is going to prove me wrong.

As time goes on I start to wonder if religion is doing more harm than good. It was all well and good when the main religion around here espoused "love thy neighbor/turn the other cheek" even if most of them weren't good at following it. Now we have the "small majority" of "kill all infidels and those who would insult the prophet," and unfortunately when they blow their K:D ratio is better than 10:1. They'd be pros in Team Fortress 2.

And what do you do about it? I don't know. You'd need perfect awareness to keep the poor oppressed people from meeting in secret to read from the magic book and pray as a group to gandalf, and you just can't do it.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:18 am**

GORDON wrote:And what do you do about it? I don't know. You'd need perfect awareness to keep the poor oppressed people from meeting in secret to read from the magic book and pray as a group to gandalf, and you just can't do it.

Any human worldview that arises from powerlessness is cured by power. People are interested in religion only insofar as they need to feel a sense of control over an antipathetic world. When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:22 am**

Alhazad wrote:
GORDON wrote:And what do you do about it? I don't know. You'd need perfect awareness to keep the poor oppressed people from meeting in secret to read from the magic book and pray as a group to gandalf, and you just can't do it.

Any human worldview that arises from powerlessness is cured by power. People are interested in religion only insofar as they need to feel a sense of control over an antipathetic world. When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

But I think it can't work, there's always, always going to be the "small majority" who can't or won't rise above the need for religion, and there will always be the scoundrels who take advantage of these people for their own power.

Short of wholesale eugenics of everyone so inclined to believe in gods, I don't think there is a fix for humanity. As such, we shouldn't allow them to come. We can keep this corner of the world nice for as long as we can, even though it can't last forever.

Edited By GORDON on 1458908627

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:23 am**

As time goes on I start to wonder if religion is doing more harm than good.

Yank it away and watch what happens. Let's imagine that's even possible, to kill beliefs in a permanent sense. It's not a mistake that there are billions of adherents in the world. Taking it away would be like jolting someone out of the matrix. Perhaps they have a permanent inferiority complex, which seems understandable since humans have only been the dominant species for a few seconds in terms of evolutionary time, and their brains only function if they're working for someone else.

When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

All those wealthy, Western Scientologists disagree.

there's always, always going to be the "small majority" who can't or won't rise above the need for religion, and there will always be the scoundrels who take advantage of these people for their own power.

I can replace religion with almost anything. Money, fame, prestige, security for one's family, shitty, lying politicians running on platforms of falsehoods, etc.

Edited By Malcolm on 1458916010

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:14 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Let's imagine that's even possible, to kill beliefs in a permanent sense.

If you check Russia, you can see that it's quite possible. But there are some... growing pains associated with it.

When they can defend against bad luck through education, technology, and government instead, religions become toothless.

All those wealthy, Western Scientologists disagree.

Can't count the number of Scientologists who walk into Israeli movie theaters and pop. Hang on, that's not right. Didn't they infiltrate the U.S. government and launch a nuke that hit Mexico City, killing millions? Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:30 pm**

Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

No, they've had people murdered and tortured.

Edited By Malcolm on 1458930628

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:48 pm**

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, they just stole paperwork? Nevermind.

No, they've had people murdered and tortured.

Not during Operation Snow White, but I'll grant that they have. Let's tot up their score compared to other religions. Since they haven't had as much history, we can use their per-year score.

...

Oh look, they're toothless. And they will continue to be as long as they target countries where widespread public education exists. I'm sure if I were relative to one of the schizos or crazies that Scientology boondoggled I'd consider them very dangerous, but... kangaroos kill more people.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:53 pm**

Oh fuck that. All the other religious came of age during times when putting mofos to the sword was an accepted means of resolving 90% of legal disputes.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:04 pm**

Malcolm wrote:Oh fuck that. All the other religious came of age during times when putting mofos to the sword was an accepted means of resolving 90% of legal disputes.

Exactly my point, dude. When you have schools and doctors and police and appellate courts, you don't need Cu Chulainn to inspire you to victory over the heathens on the field of war.

Any religion that arises in a first-world society is emaciated by default because there isn't enough of the pie left, no matter how vicious it would be if unchecked.

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