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I'm noticing the press is really going after Johnson for his Aleppo "gaffe". Between that and the savaging the press is giving Matt Lauer for not live fact checking Trump last night, it's looking like the press is really starting to worry about Trump. Since Johnson has been hurting Hillary more than Trump that makes sense. An interesting election.

Yeah, I was wondering why that's all over the news today. He's basically holding true to what his party believes.

I was looking at the polls a few weeks ago comparing the two polls between the two major party candidates and between the four parties. Trumps numbers remained pretty constant while Hillary's were hurt by the addition of options. That told me there was a base of actual Trump supporters and a number that felt we could not allow Hillary to win the Presidency. Hillary's shifting numbers told me there was a large chunk that would never vote for Trump, but really didn't want to vote for Hillary, either.

From what I can tell from the lowlights of last nights forum, we get to choose between an idiot and a liar.

Vince wrote:From what I can tell from the lowlights of last nights forum, we get to choose between an idiot and a liar.

Which is which again?

Malcolm wrote:

Vince wrote:From what I can tell from the lowlights of last nights forum, we get to choose between an idiot and a liar.

Which is which again?

Exactly

I wish Clinton were an idiot. That would make her less dangerous. She's villainous, power-hungry, unscrupulous, and offensively malevolent towards the individual American people and the nation as a whole. But she's not stupid.

It's an easy mistake to make. If you look at her policies and presume they are meant to make things better then yeah, you'd have to conclude that she's an idiot. But if you look at her policies knowing that really they are about consolidating power then they don't look so dumb.

Everything you say about Trumps is true, though. He's also many other things, but the true idiocy overrides all of it.

Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

Lies.

TPRJones wrote:Lies.

90% of the voters think it isn't, and that dictates reality.

Malcolm wrote:Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

That is contorted reasoning that keeps you a slave to the system.

Vince wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

That is contorted reasoning that keeps you a slave to the system.

Truth!

The only way to end the two party system (without violence) is by giving your vote to a third party. The more that do it, the more that third option becomes viable, and the more other people will believe they're not "throwing their vote away".

I'm tempted to vote 3rd party but I seriously want to see Trump chaos....

I promise you, win or lose there will still be some level of Trump chaos.

I want the spectacle of Hillary's True Believers heads' exploding.

The fact that includes half my family doesn't factor into it as far as you know.

TPRJones wrote:Lies.

You're being sarcastic, I assume. That's exactly what happens in a first-past-the-post system and you've been bullyragging the third-party believers on this forum about it for months.

Vince wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

That is contorted reasoning that keeps you a slave to the system.

Reasoning of any kind is not what slaves you to the system. Violence is. Shut off your brain with MTV or elevate it with Emerson and Thoreau -- the system will still find you when you stop paying taxes.

Alhazad wrote:

TPRJones wrote:Lies.

You're being sarcastic, I assume. That's exactly what happens in a first-past-the-post system and you've been bullyragging the third-party believers on this forum about it for months.

Yes and No. It is a lie. But it's an inevitably useful lie; useful for the major parties because it keeps people in line, and inevitable because any first-past-the-post system will devolve into making the lie a true lie. But it's still a lie in that if everyone would just stop believing it it would stop being true ... at least until the system eventually devolved again to the equilibrium point where the lie becomes true once more.

Every system has an equilibrium point. If you use a system with an awful equilibrium point you will eventually have an awful system.

PS: Bullyragging the third party voters? What now? I'm a third party voter. Well, probably; there's still the chance I may go Trump and hope for a quick assassination, but I'm about as far from either Democrat or Republican as you can get.

Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

That is contorted reasoning that keeps you a slave to the system.

That was sarcasm but it turns out to be the general sentiment of a majority of the voters in this country. Hell, there aren't even two parties anymore. That's like saying heads and tails are two different coins.

Reasoning of any kind is not what slaves you to the system. Violence is ... the system will still find you when you stop paying taxes.

Yeah, although this has been true since the late 1700s. This is about something far more important than skimming profits off the top in the name of the state.

I'm tempted to vote 3rd party but I seriously want to see Trump chaos....

As if your vote is going to matter.

I promise you, win or lose there will still be some level of Trump chaos.

Guaranteed.

I want the spectacle of Hillary's True Believers heads' exploding.

The fact that includes half my family doesn't factor into it as far as you know.

I'd rather have the spectacle of Trump's ego having to give a capitulation speech and a "YOU'RE FIRED!" meme spreading across the country. Perhaps it's because he's enough of a whiny, pussy, bitch that he's already kind of giving in by playing the "if I lose it must have been election fraud" card. Perhaps because every dismal failure pushes the pachyderms closer to reform, and they're way closer to the chasm's edge than their opposition. I'll reconsider that opinion when Ellen, Oprah, or Rosie O'Donnell wins the jack-ass nomination.

Alhazad wrote:

Vince wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Why? Because there are only two parties and if you don't vote against the one you hate the most by voting for the one you hate second most, the former wins.

That is contorted reasoning that keeps you a slave to the system.

Reasoning of any kind is not what slaves you to the system. Violence is. Shut off your brain with MTV or elevate it with Emerson and Thoreau -- the system will still find you when you stop paying taxes.

I'm talking about the party system. I was stated here that the parties don't care if you don't vote as long as they still win. Not entirely true. Along with being a political apparatus, the parties are also a business. If you don't think so, make a donation to someone in a primary and watch what happens to your inbox after the primary is over. They are very interested in getting people involved in the system and voting (and donating).