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Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:51 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:Malcolm wrote:When all you have to do is step outside your hut and grab a banana a coconut and some crabs to survive, that usually doesn't generate the needed diversity to develop farming and iron working and animal husbandry.
The dudes in the tropics could outsail any European until the advent of steam power. Navigation skills were way more important than metalworking.
And yet they didn't dominate the world in spite of that supposed advantage.
Maybe they didn't fucking want to.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:11 pm
by TPRJones
So is the concept of having... what was it at last count... 8 different genders? a new thing?
Truth be told, there's about as many different genders as there are people on the planet. The vastly overwhelming majority fall into two groups that are very similar, and can be labeled en masse as male and female. But when you get right down to it how GORDON expresses his masculinity is different from how Malcolm expresses his, and both are a bit different from Vince, etc. But they all get put into the same labeled box together, which is fine for them.
Some people seem to be born with the wrong genitals. They have a dick but as a little kid they played with dolls and loved pink things and wanted to grow up to be a princess and marry a prince. Historically they would either be beaten until they were able to pretend to be normal or they'd be killed for being a freak.
The problem isn't that there are more genders. The problem is that so many busybodies want to insist that everyone fit into a box. Is it really so important that everyone have a damn label that some of them have to die (or be so berated by society that they wish they were dead) because they don't fit?
Bah. Fuck society and it's genders. I'm a me. You go be a you. And if you aren't planning to fuck someone then their "gender" shouldn't be any of your god damned business.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:22 pm
by GORDON
I don't really see the traditionalists telling everyone to conform to them, I see the new guys telling everyone else to conform to them.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:29 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:I don't really see the traditionalists telling everyone to conform to them, I see the new guys telling everyone else to conform to them.
So is the concept of having... what was it at last count... 8 different genders? a new thing? Has it always been like this but people were oppressed? Are we just now in this new era of enlightenment where people are free to be what they feel on the inside, a male trans gender queer bi pony?
...maybe what they need is less contact with other broken people so they stop thinking their mental aberrations are normal.
...
For me, if you have a cock you're a guy and if you have a pussy you are a chick, and then maybe you're straight or gay.
Isn't this arguing that modern times need to follow the old rules?
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:58 pm
by TPRJones
GORDON wrote:I don't really see the traditionalists telling everyone to conform to them, I see the new guys telling everyone else to conform to them.
Looking back that's pretty much the entirety of your input on this topic.
When consenting adults can marry each other regardless of what is between their legs and not have to fight a multitude of legal battles then it might be so. But as long as they are still forced to follow the ancient religious customs that they themselves do not subscribe to, then you are just plain wrong.
Now I will admit that there are plenty of assholes on the other side that go too far. So the second half of your statement is not wrong. But the first half is complete fail. Everyone on both sides just needs to stop trying to tell other people how to live their lives.
Edited By TPRJones on 1425927587
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:10 pm
by TheCatt
"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women. "Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.
...
Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955. Before his work, it was uncommon to use the word gender to refer to anything but grammatical categories.[1][2] However, Money's meaning of the word did not become widespread until the 1970s, when feminist theory embraced the concept of a distinction between biological sex and the social construct of gender.
Gender
Facebook offers between 51-58 genders (according to a quick google)
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm
by Malcolm
Facebook offers between 51-58 genders (according to a quick google)
Instagram tops 1000+.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:19 pm
by GORDON
TPRJones wrote:GORDON wrote:I don't really see the traditionalists telling everyone to conform to them, I see the new guys telling everyone else to conform to them.
Looking back that's pretty much the entirety of your input on this topic.
I'm not telling anyone how to live. I'm telling them to stop demanding I perceive them as something other than what they are.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:22 pm
by Malcolm
I'm telling them to stop demanding I perceive them as something other than what they are.
If you could define "what they are..."
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:24 pm
by GORDON
Already did, I said the chromosomes don't lie.
A boy who thinks he is a girl is no different than someone who isn't Napoleon who thinks they are Napoleon.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:25 pm
by Malcolm
What you are is not strictly physical.
A boy who thinks he is a girl is no different than someone who isn't Napoleon who thinks they are Napoleon.
That's a world of difference. Thinking you're some specific other person is different than not being 100% mentally in sync with your physical sex.
Edited By Malcolm on 1425929133
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:27 pm
by GORDON
Thinking you are something that you are not is not 100% in sync with reality.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:29 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:Thinking you are something that you are not is not 100% in sync with reality.
That begs the question here. The entire debate is "what you are." You're presuming to have an answer to that already, and it seems you're implying you've got the full, completely truthful picture on what reality is. If the body says "boy" and them mind says "girl," why does the mind lose the showdown automatically?
Edited By Malcolm on 1425929583
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:36 pm
by GORDON
If you're telling me that your feelings override the reality of chromosomes, then I am just going to disagree.
I said early on that chromosomes don't lie, but whether you're attracted to your own sex or the opposite sex is chemical and that can certainly be measured, and in time, be changed. But having a dick and balls and no ovaries, vagina, or uterus, and still insisting you are a female, is contrary to reality.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:40 pm
by Vince
Malcolm wrote:GORDON wrote:Thinking you are something that you are not is not 100% in sync with reality.
That begs the question here. The entire debate is "what you are." You're presuming to have an answer to that already, and it seems you're implying you've got the full, completely truthful picture on what reality is. If the body says "boy" and them mind says "girl," why does the mind lose the showdown automatically?
If the body says "human" and the mind says "elephant" is it medical malpractice to sew a trunk on the person?
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:40 pm
by Malcolm
If you're telling me that your feelings override the reality of chromosomes, then I am just going to disagree.
Brain > body, and it's not uncommon under certain circumstances. In fact, it's a bit difficult to separate those two things as far as overall health goes. And that last one is from Rene goddamn Descartes if you think it's just some hippie bullshit from the last half century.
I said early on that chromosomes don't lie, but whether you're attracted to your own sex or the opposite sex is chemical and that can certainly be measured...
Gender identity is more than those components.
Edited By Malcolm on 1425930104
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:49 pm
by GORDON
Rationality is the quality or state of being reasonable, based on facts or reason.
Feelings cannot be measured empirically.
Sanity is
++++
\
I tried putting som,ething t0gether but my kid just got home and won't stop jabbering and now there is no more rational thought in me.
Long story short, perception is not reality.
Edited By GORDON on 1425930682
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:55 pm
by Malcolm
Rationality is the quality or state of being reasonable, based on facts or reason.
You can't know all the facts or guarantee perfect reasoning. What validates your logic?
Rational and irrational. If you operate as a strictly logical and reasonable individual, then you toss away your intuition and sensations entirely because all that shit is irrational. You get to be Commander Data at worst or Spock at best.
Here's what David Hume thinks.
Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them.
Edited By Malcolm on 1425931067
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:04 pm
by GORDON
Here you go. You should love this.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:30 pm
by GORDON
I am in a room with 5 other people. I see an elephant in the room with us, but the other 5 people insist that there is no elephant. My first question is to my own sanity. I test and observe that the other people have functioning eyesight. I test and observe that there are no smoke and mirrors in play. I weigh the contents of the room and observe there is 2 tons that can only be explained by elephant. I dip the entire room in water and observe an elephant's worth of displacement.
At this point I conclude that I am rational and the other 5 are not, in spite of their consensus. I write up my findings and challenge anyone to disprove them. This is the Scientific Method and it is bulletproof.
Now, take that same logic and process and apply it to a human with a penis and testicles, and no vagina, uterus, or ovaries. If any serious scientists have ever taken on "Why do people think they are a different sex than what their chromosomes state," I bet it always starts with the question, "Why are their brains wired abnormally?" which leads to the question "And can it be fixed?" which leads to the protests of, "There's nothing to fix!" Which is what someone irrational would say.
That last sentence was a dig. The rest was objective.