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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:38 pm
by GORDON
I can't help but think most companies who don't give a shit would rather hire 3 shitty guys overseas for $19k each than 1 decent guy in the U.S. for $75k.
If shitty tech workers need a salary reality check, fine. But I think the H1-Bs are overdone. Or is it H-1B? I can never remember.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:45 pm
by Malcolm
I can't help but think most companies who don't give a shit would rather hire 3 shitty guys overseas for $19k each than 1 decent guy in the U.S. for $75k.
Are you one of the corporate execs where I work?
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:52 pm
by GORDON
I've spent enough time in giant corporate IT shops to recognize the practice.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:55 pm
by TheCatt
Vince wrote:TheCatt wrote:Vince wrote:Yeah, too bad the jobs are going to Indians with visas.
Actually, visas are pretty limited for those guys.
For now. Zuckerburg is pushing hard to change that with Immigration reform. I'm really starting to hate that little prick's guts.
One the one hand, I want immigration reform and think that allowing skilled labor into the country will certainly raise the country's GDP, growth rate, etc.
On the other hand, more programmers = less demand for programmers, and I'm a programmer.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:19 pm
by Malcolm
I stand by my original statement. Increasing the number of shitty to mediocre coders only makes me look better.
Edited By Malcolm on 1404764374
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:39 pm
by Vince
That's true as long as someone in the company recognizes that all coders are not created equal. For the number crunching firm like Gordo was talking about, I think they look at how many Indian workers they can get for the same amount of money.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:42 pm
by GORDON
Nearly 100% of the overseas code I had to unfuck was not documented, and used poor coding practices.
But fuck it.... they can just hire 2 more overseas guys to unfuck it.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:52 pm
by Malcolm
Nearly 100% of the overseas code I had to unfuck was not documented, and used poor coding practices.
Nearly 100% of the code I see is that way, overseas or otherwise.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:57 pm
by GORDON
Mine was always really good.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:58 pm
by TPRJones
Everyone thinks their code is good.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:00 pm
by GORDON
Mine was, objectively and empirically, way above average.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:02 pm
by Malcolm
TPRJones wrote:Everyone thinks their code is good.
I didn't use to. Then I started paying more attention to the code from other dudes on my team and ones we were interviewing. The interview thing is stark. I would never have believed it, but there are two types -- those can code and those who can't. Period. It's not a halfway thing. I'd say at least 90% of the applicants we look at epically fail what should be ten-line programs. I'm talking shit that should be, if not second nature, not completely foreign. I've got two standard questions I give every interview candidate. They aren't difficult if you've got a legit two-year degree. I've yet to see one of the 90% bullshit their way through it, even though some look to have had the creds on paper to pull it off.
I consider them to be rather good indicators of filtering out the "you've got no hope" group from everyone else. If I've got that barometer, I'm thinking it's not a huge leap to suppose I've got one for quality.
I'll grant my code sucked for a few years, and it took some time to realize it sucked, how it sucked, and how to unsuckify it. But it sucks far less than back in the day. I don't know if it's "good" but it's been better than 90% of the people I've met through the professional or academic worlds. There are a few folk who currently work at MS in that demographic. Their programmers are outstanding. Their designers, architects, marketers, and managers all need regular whippings. But the programmers they hire are solid.
Edited By Malcolm on 1404771087
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:07 pm
by TheCatt
TPRJones wrote:Everyone thinks their code is good.
No.
I think mine's awesome.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:13 pm
by GORDON
TheCatt wrote:TPRJones wrote:Everyone thinks their code is good.
No.
I think mine's awesome.
Me too but I didn't want to boast too much.
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:49 pm
by TheCatt
TheCatt wrote:I hear software engineers make a boatload more with nicer working conditions.
Welders don't make dick
Or maybe they do?
HOUSTON— Justin Friend ’s parents have doctoral degrees and have worked as university lecturers and researchers. So Mr. Friend might have been expected to head for a university after graduating from high school in Bryan, Texas, five years ago.
Instead, he attended Texas State Technical College in Waco, and received a two-year degree in welding. In 2013, his first full year as a welder, his income was about $130,000, more than triple the average annual wages for welders in the U.S. In 2014, Mr. Friend’s income rose to about $140,000.
That has allowed the 24-year-old to buy a $53,000 Ford F-250 pickup truck, invest in mutual funds and dabble in his hobbies, such as making jet engines, including one he attached to a golf cart.
“Not everybody needs a four-year college degree,” said Kathryn Vaughan, his mother, a retired biology lecturer who spent part of her career at Texas A&M University.
Edited By TheCatt on 1420674738
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:42 pm
by Vince
My burden... being right so much of the time 
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:13 pm
by TheCatt
Vince wrote:My burden... being right so much of the time
To be fair, he works the equivalent of two jobs:
Mr. Friend, who is single, typically works 72 hours a week, usually including at least one day of the weekend, often on an overnight shift. His base pay is more than $25 an hour, up from about $22 when he started in 2012. He gets overtime after 40 hours a week. Pay is doubled on Sundays and tripled on holidays. He receives health insurance, a 401k retirement plan and paid vacation.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:18 am
by Malcolm
Fuck. Triple holiday pay?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:38 am
by Vince
TheCatt wrote:To be fair, he works the equivalent of two jobs:
One of those things that's a lot easier at 24, for sure!
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:59 pm
by TPRJones
Yeah, our welding program has grown to several hundred students and for the past three years has had a 100% placement rate for graduates. Their average starting salaries for their first year after graduation are being reported as around $90k (including overtime).
The Port of Houston and the oil industry down here just can't get enough welders.
Edited By TPRJones on 1420754505