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Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:04 am
by GORDON
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:47 am
by Leisher
Odd. I think I read that same interview several months ago in "The Official Games for Windows Magazine", formerly Computer Gaming World.
Anyway, I'm of the belief that Carmack has lost his relevance. I think we're looking at a gaming legend who is nowhere near the top of his field anymore. I mean Doom 3 did good sales, but it exposed how far behind the competition id has fallen. They're living off their name right now, and I'm not sure that good will is going to last forever. I mean, Doom 3 got blasted by the gaming media and nobody ran to their defense.
I remember reading an article in which he discussed how cell phone gaming is the wave of the future and that's where he wanted to focus his efforts. Funny because cell phones have zero processing power, a single means of player input, all the games are easy to share with friends (IE: no additional sales = piracy), the graphics and sound are crap, etc. I mention that because these are topics he mentions in the article as to why PC gaming is in trouble or where console gaming is inferior to PC gaming.
I should also note that I believe I remember reading in that same article that his wife has something to do with the cell phone business. That could provide one with fuel for speculation as to why he's so focused on it.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:38 am
by TheCatt
PSP - 333Mhz
DS - 67/33 Mhz
They seem to do alright for gaming according to the 70 million DS units sold and 37 million units of the PSP.
And I guess we could add in the iPhone now:
620 Mhz
5.5 million sold (prior to 3G version)
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:08 am
by TheCatt
1 million 3G iPhones sold since Friday, and counting.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:09 am
by Leisher
· Posted on Jul. 14 2008,07:38
PSP - 333Mhz
DS - 67/33 Mhz
They seem to do alright for gaming according to the 70 million DS units sold and 37 million units of the PSP.
And I guess we could add in the iPhone now:
620 Mhz
5.5 million sold (prior to 3G version)
Not sure what your point is...? The PSP and DS are handhelds, not cell phones. I don't recall mentioning handhelds.
I know this business well enough to know that the DS is the best selling game system on the planet.
Cell phones versus handhelds are night and day. Ditto for their games. Take Orcs and Elves for example. Carmack is porting them from the cell phone to the DS. If they come over as is, they'll be an insult to handheld gamers. The game is just so basic and devoid of content.
As for the iPhone, nobody buys a cell phone for video games. Nobody ever will. That's my point. Sure, they sold 6 million units (although, let's be honest, every single one of those 1 million sold since Friday were sold to people who were in line for the first one), but how many of those people are ever going to use their iPhone to game? 100% of handheld and console buyers use their systems to play games.
Again, the handhelds and the iPhone are nothing more than small PCs. Those small PCs becoming ever reliant upon being plugged (or wireless) into a PC for power, file transfers, etc.
Eventually, we'll all carry a device that is a cell (or WiFi) phone , a handheld, and a PC. In fact, I remember seeing something like this on new Dell laptops that I haven't seen in real life yet. You had the standard laptop, and there was a removable unit that you could pop out and would fit in your pocket. This unit would get your emails, have your contacts and calendar, etc.
Anyway, yeah there is an audience there for cell phone gaming, but I don't think they're as fanatic or as large as John thinks. Given the choice, would you rather game on your Motorola Razor or your DS? It's not a contest.
Of course, this brings me to another point about Carmack's relevance. I think one would have to at least entertain the idea that he is retreating to a time in PC gaming when he ruled the roost. Cell phone games are very much late 80s/early 90s. John and id have been getting their ass kicked lately, so perhaps there is a bit of ego involved in his new philosophy?
But no matter, the final word is that everything that plays games is a PC. It doesn't matter if you call it a Razor or a PS3 or a Wii or an X-Box 360 or an iPhone, it's a PC. And as the PC becomes more a part of our lives, including more a part of running our homes, gaming will continue to flourish there while other platforms might disappear as they're no longer profitable or needed.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:29 pm
by Malcolm
Yeah, I think that the PC definitely can't.. we can't go on making PC games like we used to. The combination of the dominance of the consoles, as far as market forces there, and piracy.. the traditional AAA, media-heavy boxed game that sells for a bunch of money, and goes out on the PC for a single player experience--it's just not happening. Even if we look at something that had such a push like Crysis, it didn't really do all that well.
So, he makes that point & then goes on to talk about all the advantages of PCs over other platforms.
I think what he's going for is that single player, stand-alone games w\ little to no multiplayer support aren't selling quite like they were before. Well no shit, John. Amazing how that trend happened along w\ the rise of the ubiquity of the net.
Carmack is one of the most gifted hackers ever to code in assembly. But a visionary for the future ... eh, I don't really think so.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:38 pm
by GORDON
I've always held to the belief that even if the big boys (id, etc) stop making PC-exclusive or even PC games at all, there's always a home-grown PC programming team out there that will fill the gap. A lot of great games come from unknown developers... and then they sell out. Which is fine. But I don't see that cycle ending.......................... unless Microsoft, under their "Games for Windows" moniker, starts making the barrier to entry for garage groups prohibitive.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:38 pm
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:· Posted on Jul. 14 2008,07:38
PSP - 333Mhz
DS - 67/33 Mhz
They seem to do alright for gaming according to the 70 million DS units sold and 37 million units of the PSP.
And I guess we could add in the iPhone now:
620 Mhz
5.5 million sold (prior to 3G version)
Not sure what your point is...? The PSP and DS are handhelds, not cell phones. I don't recall mentioning handhelds.
You said phones have 0 processing power. I was showing how cell phones had more processing power than gaming machines.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:43 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:But I don't see that cycle ending.......................... unless Microsoft, under their "Games for Windows" moniker, starts making the barrier to entry for garage groups prohibitive.
Just give it time. MS doesn't strike me as the kind that plays nicely w\ those it ain't brainwashed. Or wants to brainwash.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:24 pm
by Leisher
You said phones have 0 processing power. I was showing how cell phones had more processing power than gaming machines.
Ah, quote me next time so I know what you're addressing.
As for the zero processing power thing, I was merely making a point about a phone's inability to be considered a good game platform.
Certain phones might have the processing power, but that's only part of the requirements to make a good game.
I've yet to see a single cell phone game that belongs on even the DS. Sorry Mr. Carmack, but Orcs and Elves is way too light for the DS. Orcs and Elves sitting next to the latest Zelda game on the DS shelves is downright evil.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:48 pm
by TheCatt
Super Monkey Ball?
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:10 pm
by Leisher
Depends on the game itself.
It might say "Super Monkey Ball", but is it worthy of that title?
For example, I have EA's PGA Tour 2007 or something like that and it's about as basic as a game can get. No bells and whistles. Horrible graphics. Horrible controls. No ability to really control your shots outside of guessing. Etc.
To Carmack's credit, Orcs and Elves, along with Doom, has been the most fun I've had on a cell phone in terms of gaming, but neither were DS quality.
And actually, I need to amend that previous statement, while those might have been more fun, I've played more chess and sudoku than anything else.