A handfull of completely unrelated bits of trivia.

Post by **TheCatt** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:10 pm

Life was perfect when everyone was Mormon and no one ever had sex or was below average.

Post by **Vince** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:30 pm

I've been saying what he said about sex and single mothers for years.

Stigma worked. Wasn't perfect, but 1 out of 3 kids weren't born to single mothers.

Post by **TheCatt** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:43 pm

Have your stigma... I'll take my crime-ridden sex-filled societies.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:59 pm

Just as long as they don't take away my gated suburbs.

Post by **Vince** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:04 pm

Have your stigma... I'll take my crime-ridden sex-filled societies.

And you'll have Rome.

Or an AIDs epidemic like in Africa.

Sorry, but "rights" don't produce an orderly society. Except maybe the right of freedom of association, which is... stigma.

Post by **TPRJones** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:04 pm

The thing Card doesn't seem to realize is you can't get back there from here. He's talking about a fundamental shift in societal norms. All the crotchety "remember when" essays in the world won't turn back that clock. The only way to put the stigma back into society is for the vast majority of people to agree with him (which they don't) and to have the individuals targeted by that stigma care what other people think (which they don't).

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish here, besides waling and moaning?

Post by **Vince** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:08 pm

The thing Card doesn't seem to realize is you can't get back there from here. He's talking about a fundamental shift in societal norms. All the crotchety "remember when" essays in the world won't turn back that clock. The only way to put the stigma back into society is for the vast majority of people to agree with him (which they don't) and to have the individuals targeted by that stigma care what other people think (which they don't).

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish here, besides waling and moaning?

Actually, I'd disagree. The clock's going back for the "stay at home mom" (the ones that bother to marry the daddy, anyway). Fewer and fewer kids are going into daycare among 2 parent homes as compared to 15 to 20 years ago.

But I'll agree that it usually doesn't come until after the collapse.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:54 pm

This "collapse" is needed in order to wake people up to the problem.

People like me and Card bitching about it... well, I like to think I postpone the collapse by 5 minutes, or so.

Mommy Dearest · Post by **Mommy Dearest** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:16 pm

The thing Card doesn't seem to realize is you can't get back there from here. He's talking about a fundamental shift in societal norms. All the crotchety "remember when" essays in the world won't turn back that clock. The only way to put the stigma back into society is for the vast majority of people to agree with him (which they don't) and to have the individuals targeted by that stigma care what other people think (which they don't).

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish here, besides waling and moaning?
Actually, I'd disagree. The clock's going back for the "stay at home mom" (the ones that bother to marry the daddy, anyway). Fewer and fewer kids are going into daycare among 2 parent homes as compared to 15 to 20 years ago.

But I'll agree that it usually doesn't come until after the collapse.

Care to share the source of these "stats"?

Post by **Vince** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:30 am

The thing Card doesn't seem to realize is you can't get back there from here. He's talking about a fundamental shift in societal norms. All the crotchety "remember when" essays in the world won't turn back that clock. The only way to put the stigma back into society is for the vast majority of people to agree with him (which they don't) and to have the individuals targeted by that stigma care what other people think (which they don't).

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish here, besides waling and moaning?

Actually, I'd disagree. The clock's going back for the "stay at home mom" (the ones that bother to marry the daddy, anyway). Fewer and fewer kids are going into daycare among 2 parent homes as compared to 15 to 20 years ago.

But I'll agree that it usually doesn't come until after the collapse.

Care to share the source of these "stats"?

It was a study that came out about 5 years ago. Most of the young parents cited the fact that they hated day-care and didn't want to do that to their kids, or at least wanted to do better for them (realizing that "more money" didn't always mean "better childhood").

Rush Limbaugh talked a lot about the study when it came out.

Edited By Vince on 1129008656

DoctorChaos · Post by **DoctorChaos** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:18 am

This "collapse" is needed in order to wake people up to the problem.

People like me and Card bitching about it... well, I like to think I postpone the collapse by 5 minutes, or so.

Or as long as it takes to read your post.

Rush Limbaugh talked a lot about the study when it came out.

Now there's a credible source. Say what you want about the man, but he has an adgenda and is a hypocrite (codone anyone?). If you look hard enough you can find any numbers you want to further your claim. I'd like to see this study broken down by income. I'll bet you'll see it's among the very affluent.

Post by **TheCatt** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:23 am

Have your stigma... I'll take my crime-ridden sex-filled societies.
And you'll have Rome.

Or an AIDs epidemic like in Africa.

Sorry, but "rights" don't produce an orderly society. Except maybe the right of freedom of association, which is... stigma.

Maybe I forgot the *sarcasm* tag.

Mommy Dearest · Post by **Mommy Dearest** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:42 am

Seriously Vince I would like to know where that came from because I had never heard of it and do not see it in practice.

I have often been told, when I had something harsh to say about him, that Rush was entertainment only, so you will have to forgive my doubting.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:33 am

Have your stigma... I'll take my crime-ridden sex-filled societies.
And you'll have Rome.

Or an AIDs epidemic like in Africa.

Sorry, but "rights" don't produce an orderly society. Except maybe the right of freedom of association, which is... stigma.

Most of that still sounds better than listening to another essay from Card.

Post by **Leisher** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:31 pm

Oops.

fkkgbaoga · Post by **fkkgbaoga** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:16 pm

*removed*

Edited By TheCatt on 1158186827

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:16 pm

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Alhazad · Post by **Alhazad** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:49 am

Wait, what happened?

Post by **Leisher** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:00 am

Spambots.