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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Ok, I just checked myself:

http://www.duboislc.org/BlackPerspective/BlackPerspectivePart16.html

"A total of 1,154,720 Negroes were inducted or drafted into the armed services." At first the approximate one hundred thousand who saw duty in the navy had to contend with the old policy of "messmen only," but after considerable agitation the Black enlistees were used for general services.

The Air Corps (then part of the army) maintained strictly segregated units. However, they did train Black pilots, and the all Black squadron trained at Tuskegee (who became known as the "red Tails") compiled "an exceptional total of 'kills'." The other Black squadrons, organized later, also established impressive records.

"Most Negro troops in Europe were in the Quartermaster Corps, as they had been in World War I. And in the task of servicing the fighting fronts, Negro Units performed prodigies of stevedoring, trucking, wire-laying, beach-clearing, and evacuation of the wounded. Some forty thousand Negroes were the majority of the men who formed the amazing 'Red Ball Express', a truck supply route in Europe that ran from the ports and beaches right up to the front lines. Bumper to bumper, in any weather, under strafing and shelling, the Red Ball trucks went through night and day. Disabled trucks were pushed off the road (which was five times as long as the famed Burma Road), but the Red Ball Express kept moving—a feat that amazed the military commanders of all nations and a vital, if not the vital, key to Allied victories in Europe. On top of this, when the Red Ball men delivered their supplies, they often picked up rifles and fought. At Bastogne, Belgium, during the Battle of the Bulge, the Red Ball Express rolled into the beleaguered American pocket as German forces closed in behind them. After distributing their supplies, the truck drivers grabbed weapons and helped the 101st Airborne Division make its legendary stand against the last German offensive of the war."


They were there, but it looks like the only did a tiny percentage of the actual fighting. Much like the 51st in the Civil War, under Mathew Broderick.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Mommy Dearest
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Post by Mommy Dearest »

I've never understood this argument. Not that I think that diversity is a bad thing, but it isn't required the way some people think.

Two examples would be Germany (WWII) and Japan. Not real big on diversity and Germany damn near took over Europe and Japan became economic powerhouse without it.

France is super big on diversity and tolerance, and they are pathetic.
1) Germany lost
2) Japan's economy has been shit for 15+ years.
3) France is to diversity as cleanliness is to French people.
1) Germany lost to a whites-only army.

Women were getting into the factories at home, but then the same hing happened in Germany.

Jap Americans got thrown in jail, Jew Germans got thrown in the gas chamber.

Germany didn't have the black population America did, but they would have been put to work in the factories, too.
I think you better research that 1) a little closer. Army was segregated but very heavily black
Mommy Dearest
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Post by Mommy Dearest »

1) Germany lost
2) Japan's economy has been shit for 15+ years.
3) France is to diversity as cleanliness is to French people.
1) Germany lost to a whites-only army.

Women were getting into the factories at home, but then the same hing happened in Germany.

Jap Americans got thrown in jail, Jew Germans got thrown in the gas chamber.

Germany didn't have the black population America did, but they would have been put to work in the factories, too.
I think you better research that 1) a little closer. Army was segregated but very heavily black
OK so I read the rest after going off. What percent of the white army actually saw fighting or was support?
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Post by TheCatt »

After much urging from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), in 1941 the War Department formed the all-black 99th Pursuit Squadron of the U.S. Army Air Corps (later the Air Force) to train a small group of pilots. They trained at Tuskegee, Alabama, and became known as the Tuskegee Airmen. The group flew important supply and service missions in North Africa and Europe beginning in 1943.

Black soldiers were generally restricted from combat, but the realities of war would soon blur the lines of race. One major breakthrough came during the Battle of the Bulge, in late 1944, says Ambrose.

General Dwight D. Eisenhower, faced with Hitler's advancing army on the Western Front, temporarily desegregated the army, calling for urgent assistance on the front lines. More than 2,000 black soldiers volunteered to fight.

Source

Gordon is teh wrong.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

1. I already corrected myself.

2. Jew slave labor was used in german munitions plants, but i don't think i'd go so far as to say Jews fought for the nazis.
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Post by TheCatt »

1. Not well enough
2. Jews were not on the front lines.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

There was the Tuskegee Airmen, but I don't recall any Divisions of black troops in Europe. We would have had them shoved down our throats in February, by now.
Really?
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

Ok, so Gordo was wrong about WW2, but you're getting off the point.

Nature always hires the best man for the job and NEVER discriminates because it literally doesn't care. Humans discriminate out of ignorance or by law.

So if I were allowed to play Devil's advocate, I'd say:

Considering no numbers were provided in the Battle of the Bulge incident, I doubt they turned the tide.

I also doubt that another tank division couldn't have opened the hole on the Siegfried Line.

Point being, was it great to have everyone united against a single foe? Yes. Was the diversity neccessary? Probably not.

I think we need diversity as a culture to grow. The vast experiences help us all see things from different perspectives and approach problems in different ways. Not to mention the fact that mother nature tends to make different versions of things to survive certain conditions. However, do we need "one of everybody" or the human race dies? Probably not.

If whites, blacks, Jews, Arabs, Japanese, or even left-handed people disappeared over night I think the human race would continue on.

Finally, isn't diversity really the most compelling point FOR segregation? Or does diversity mean, "Respect one another's cultures, but don't mix them?"
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Post by Malcolm »

Sometimes it can mean the difference between victory & defeat.

You try planting a white double agent in Sri Lanka, Liberia, Iran, or China. We need that motherfucking intelligence. Then again, the U.S. doesn't've the best recent history of intelligence-gathering, so maybe we should just outsource to the Mossad.
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Post by GORDON »

There was the Tuskegee Airmen, but I don't recall any Divisions of black troops in Europe. We would have had them shoved down our throats in February, by now.
Really?
Really. A battallion is not a division.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

There was the Tuskegee Airmen, but I don't recall any Divisions of black troops in Europe. We would have had them shoved down our throats in February, by now.
Really?
Really. A battallion is not a division.
Hiding behind military semantics, are we?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Pretty much, since after I corrected myself from my "whites only" statement, my argument after that was that black representation was minute compared to whites in the forces that fought the nazis. In the ETO in 1944 a division would be significant, a battallion is not.

But I guess I stand corrected... Hitler faced a fully integrated force, chock fill o' diversity.
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Post by Vince »

And the point is that a non-diverce Germany kicked the shit out of all of Europe. Without the US intervention, Germany probably wouldn't have lost.

And say what you want about Japan's economy, but they turned the auto factories in Detroit into "space for rent". They have been hurting, but they were slapping the piss out of us for a while.

And as for Frances tolerance to diversity; what would you say is the root of the little problem they're having in Paris right now?
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

And as for Frances tolerance to diversity; what would you say is the root of the little problem they're having in Paris right now?
Day 7, non?
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

And the point is that a non-diverce Germany kicked the shit out of all of Europe. Without the US intervention, Germany probably wouldn't have lost.
You're saying Hitler (one of the worst tacticians in history) could've accomplished what Napoleon failed to do?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

And as for Frances tolerance to diversity; what would you say is the root of the little problem they're having in Paris right now?
Day 7, non?
Parisians are legendarily & notoriously intolerant of anyone except the French.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Muslims have been rioting in Paris suburbs for over a week. Has this been on the evening news?

Apparently they decided that their slums were now under Sharia law, and told the government to stay out completely, Simon-Phoenix-style. Then a couple muslim kids got killed (due to their own stupidity) when fleeing from police, and then it all erupted.




Edited By GORDON on 1131125491
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Muslims have been rioting in Paris suburbs for over a week. Has this been on the evening news?

Apparently they decided that their slums were now under Sharia law, and told the government to stay out completely, Simon-Phoenix-style. Then a couple muslim kids got killed (due to their own stupidity) when fleeing from police, and then it all erupted.
I ain't seen shit on this on TV. Course, I only get crappy local news, got no cable, & get most of my info from google news.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

I remember reading that back in '96 or '97 or something, the French gov't had a special anti-terrorist ops team led by a particularly ruthless judge bastard that uncovered plans to fly planes into the Eifel Tower. I wonder what their outlook on shit would be'd that happened.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
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