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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:14 pm
by GORDON
I fall about 50.00001% on the side of "abortion is probably morally wrong" argument, but I've always been able to clearly see the pro-abortion argument and pretty much kept my mouth shut about it and privately thought, "Why can't you just be more careful, or not a slut?"
But hearing about this, it kinda gives Planned Parenthood a fucking horror show vibe.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner....-tissue
Head of the foundation talking about how to forceps the fetus to not damage the salable parts. Christ.
Edited By GORDON on 1436976984
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:31 pm
by Malcolm
That's a hell of a biased article.
And it is pitiful to use the phrase “appropriate consent” to describe the deliberate killing of an innocent human being...
Stop applying your morality to the rest of the world. The phrase "begging the question" springs to mind.
Rebuttal.
There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or Planned Parenthood. In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.
I want to see some financial analysis. If they're making cash on this, they'd have no trouble keeping the centers open that seem to be getting closed due to psychotic, thinly-veiled state legislation intended to do an end run around the fourth amendment.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons...
I get the same vibe from that website as I do from the ones that think Bubba had Vince Foster killed and 9/11 was an inside job.
Edited By Malcolm on 1436978055
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:42 pm
by GORDON
Malcolm wrote:That's a hell of a biased article.
I know, right? And I keep waiting for an unbiased article about Hitler. Yeah monster yaddah yaddah, but hey, the man had some good ideas, too.
BAM godwinned.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:48 pm
by Malcolm
Calling it murder makes a lot of assumptions that break down to matters of faith. Quantum theory is also a matter of faith, but it's got a lot more evidence in its favour, and it's not trying to impose a metaphysical dictatorship along the way.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:11 pm
by GORDON
Are you arguing about the morality of abortion, or are you talking about the fact the PP chick was caught on camera talking about harvesting and selling fetal tissue? Because this wasn't about the morality of abortion.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:30 pm
by Vince
Planned Parenthood was established to prevent the proliferation of blacks and other "undesirables". Pretty much the confederate flag x 1000000000. The flag never extinguished a black life.
Selling dead baby parts is ghoulish and evil. Period.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:40 pm
by Malcolm
Vince wrote:Planned Parenthood was established to prevent the proliferation of blacks and other "undesirables". Pretty much the confederate flag x 1000000000. The flag never extinguished a black life.
And no.
The origins of Planned Parenthood date to October 16, 1916 when Margaret Sanger, her sister Ethel Byrne, and Fania Mindell opened the first birth control clinic in the U.S. in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, New York.
...
The "Brownsville trials" brought national attention and support to their cause, and although Sanger and her co-defendants were convicted, their convictions were eventually overturned. Their campaign led to major changes in the laws governing birth control and sex education in the United States.
It was 3 women looking who decided to delve into a branch of medicine that was shuttered away in a closet, if even acknowledged at all, back in the day. Because they took a look into the future and figured out back alley abortions were not the way to go.
Edited By Malcolm on 1436982250
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:50 pm
by TPRJones
Waste not, want not.
I watched the videos. I think the video commentary and news stories are heavily mischaracterizing what was said. She didn't look like someone eager to make money on selling fetuses, she looked like someone trying to match up the cases where patients said they wanted to donate the fetus for study with institutions in need of tissue. I'd rather they didn't have a handling charge on these but I can see the necessity, especially with how poorly funded they are and how frequently their funding is attacked by the twits that are unable to comprehend that Planed Parenthood is the leading preventive of abortions due to their contraceptive work.
And if you do the math based on what was said in the video we're talking between $240 and $800 per day per clinic in handling fees when they are at their busiest, so this is clearly not a way for Planned Parenthood to rake in the cash.
Honestly the only person in that video who's attitude I found repulsive was whoever was behind the camera, what with his "dime a dozen" remark and gleeful comments at the end about thank god for planned parenthood killing babies. Everyone else in the video was more properly somber about the unpleasant topic at hand.
Edited By TPRJones on 1436982891
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:57 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:Are you arguing about the morality of abortion, or are you talking about the fact the PP chick was caught on camera talking about harvesting and selling fetal tissue? Because this wasn't about the morality of abortion.
The article brings up the morality and sledgehammers you with it at the end. Up until then, I was reading with cautioned skepticism. The author's mind was made up long before they wrote word one. Then there's the vid itself which is the strongest evidence that whoever shot it had an agenda and was an interested in capturing "the truth" as Adolf was in cleaning up the human gene pool.
BAM godwinned.
Reversed.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:46 pm
by GORDON
PP has released an apology video saying that chick and the horrible things she said was fucked up, but deny that they are profiting by selling fetal organs. They are donating them for recompense, but they aren't selling them.
http://www.cnn.com/2015....didates
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:59 pm
by Malcolm
Again, if they were raking in the cash, they'd have a lot more clinics open.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:01 pm
by GORDON
Malcolm wrote:Again, if they were raking in the cash, they'd have a lot more clinics open.
Just like Subway.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:08 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:Malcolm wrote:Again, if they were raking in the cash, they'd have a lot more clinics open.
Just like Subway.
I still want to see the financial smoking gun. Find me some payments from biomed companies to PP showing the alleged profits.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:20 pm
by GORDON
Ok I have them somewhere here on my desk, give me a minute.
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:25 pm
by Malcolm
If Woodward and Berstein can follow the money and uncover Watergate, then someone ought to be able to do the same here. Oh shit, do we even have journalists anymore that know how to do anything except link someone else's work?
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:27 pm
by GORDON
I know! I mean shit, at this rate it would almost take a hidden camera to get a PP official to lay out their methods for harvesting fetal organs intact so they can maximize the value of each one before anyone paid any attention.
Edited By GORDON on 1437161321
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:32 pm
by Malcolm
1) They aren't getting rich off this. They have to deal with the costs of transporting things.
2) They are required to get the consent of the patient.
3) lay out their methods for harvesting fetal organs intact so they can maximize the value of each one before anyone paid any attention.
Well shit, we'll just have them throw things into a giant shredder from this point on. That way we'll waste everything equally. Might want to go after all those DMV commercials I see for organ donation, too. Doctors could try a little less hard when they see the back of your license signed.
Edited By Malcolm on 1437161656
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:39 pm
by GORDON
Before this event, show of hands, who knew PP was harvesting fetal matter?
Why was this a big secret?
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:35 pm
by Malcolm
Knew? I never looked, but I wouldn't be shocked if they did.
Why was this a big secret?
Because some people would explode, like they have, calling PP organ vendors and butchers. They have enough trouble with people wanting to kill them, quite literally, already. "Secret" also isn't the word I'd use. They made an announcement a few days ago and I don't have a copy of their website from before this news story, but I wouldn't be taken aback if it's in there, somewhere, in the fine print or in some kind of previously published document.
Edited By Malcolm on 1437165348
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:55 pm
by GORDON
Hell, I'm surprised that they don't use this as advertising since it is so innocuous. "We'll donate your goo to science!" right on the poster, because no matter what this doesn't have a ghoulish aspect, at all, and there's no gray area, and people who have an opinion about it are just stupid.