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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:25 pm
by Malcolm
Pissing off some Christians. Holy fucking shit, it looks like some of these dudes might have read the entire Bible instead of just the parts that reinforce their own prejudice.
“Purportedly a matter of religious freedom, we find RFRA contrary to the values of our faith — as well as to our national and Hoosier values,” stated the letter, which was signed by Sharon E. Watkins, the church’s general minister and president, as well as the leaders of its overseas and domestic missions.
“As a Christian church, we are particularly sensitive to the values of the One we follow — one who sat at table with people from all walks of life, and loved them all.”
You'll note she didn't add, "While simultaneously condemning and judging their way of life."
How fucked up is the Indiana law? Gamers are seeing eye to eye with the Christians.
Other businesses and conventions, including Gen Con, the world’s largest gaming convention, which brings an estimated $50 million to the state each year, have also threatened to find another place to hold their events.
But Gov. Mike "blind as a fucking bat" Pence had this to say.
“Faith and religion are important values to millions of Hoosiers and with the passage of this legislation,” Pence said in a statement, “we ensure that Indiana will continue to be a place where we respect freedom of religion and make certain that government action will always be subject to the highest level of scrutiny that respects the religious beliefs of every Hoosier of every faith.”
You're respecting religious freedom by taking a shit on sexual freedom. In fact, the Christians above specifically said that you're NOT respecting their values by passing this law. But I guess that religion doesn't count because Mike Pence doesn't belong to it. I missed the part in the Bible where Jesus tore up the market because the merchants were doing biz with gay dudes.
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:08 pm
by GORDON
Specifically, what does this law do and say? I have seen grumblings about sports teams not wanting to do bidness in IN over this, but haven't cared enough to see what it is about.
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:45 pm
by Malcolm
Originally, the federal version was intended to make life easier for the dudes that didn't know they were on our land before we got here, the Native Americans. There are various state versions because the fed version doesn't mean dick to state and local laws, as no one's found a way to tie it to the ultimate bullshit catch-all, the interstate commerce clause.
Strict scrutiny
Religious liberty can only be limited for a compelling government interest
If religious liberty is to be limited, it must be done in the least restrictive manner possible
It's the thing that allows religious folk to take peyote legally, or do ayahuasca as part of a religious ceremony.
The Indiana version does more. Again, not a guarantee of getting able to do whatever you want, but now you've got to hire a lawyer for longer and hope the judge isn't in a shitty mood that day.
Edited By Malcolm on 1427589958
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:19 am
by GORDON
This guy says opposition to this law is dishonest bullshit.
http://thefederalist.com/2015....nswered
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:01 am
by Vince
Anti first amendment people protesting. Mostly it's BS. Kind of like how we get pissed at schools for having zero tolerance policies? This law is the opposite of that. Says that if someone claims religious objections then it can't be dismissed out of hand. Has to bee looked at in context.
Gaystapo is just buzzwording it to get people riled up.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:44 am
by Malcolm
Yeah, the Disciples of Christ. Not exactly known for for gay rights.
Edited By Malcolm on 1427726701
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:48 am
by Leisher
While I reserve judgment about that piece being slanted, it certainly makes a far better case than anything I've heard this weekend. It always concerns me when I only hear bullet points in opposition, and no actual examples of why or how a new law sucks.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:37 am
by Vince
All well and good, but not really relevant to the law as far as I can tell.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:52 am
by Malcolm
Vince wrote:
All well and good, but not really relevant to the law as far as I can tell.
The Christians that are worried about the ramifications of this law, the ones that've been in that state for over 100 years, they're just blowing this out of proportion for what, the hell of it? Trying to recruit more gay parish members? Free publicity? These are not normally the folk at the forefront of such media campaigns.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:10 pm
by Malcolm
More alarmists.
EDIT: Well, shit. Tim Cook's behind it now. I may have to waffle on general principle.
Edited By Malcolm on 1427735624
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:43 pm
by Vince
Yeah, I love how the CEO of the biggest, richest company in the history of ever. is complaining that he's being treated like a black man during Jim Crow.
He should shut his whore mouth.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:23 pm
by TPRJones
Is this law targeted towards homosexuals? No, not in the slightest.
Could it be abused to restrict the demean the lives of homosexuals? Absolutely and it probably will at some point, because every law gets abused at some point and Indiana isn't very gay-friendly right now.
Is everyone involved on both sides of this story exaggerating their balls off? Yes, the floor is literally strewn with the balls of exaggerators.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:02 pm
by GORDON
TPRJones wrote:Is this law targeted towards homosexuals? No, not in the slightest.
Could it be abused to restrict the demean the lives of homosexuals? Absolutely and it probably will at some point, because every law gets abused at some point and Indiana isn't very gay-friendly right now.
Is everyone involved on both sides of this story exaggerating their balls off? Yes, the floor is literally strewn with the balls of exaggerators.
Headline: Asteroid Incoming! Civilization To End In Four Days! Women and Minorities Hardest Hit!
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:11 pm
by Malcolm
Women and Minorities Hardest Hit!
Technically speaking that's a true statement since everyone's hardest hit at that point.
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:56 pm
by thibodeaux
19 other states already have a law like this, plus FedGov.
And that's the WASHINGTON FREAKING POST!
The whole impetus behind this, I imagine (don't know, don't really care) is that baker in Oregon who was ordered to pay a lesbian couple 150k as a penalty for refusing to bake them a wedding cake.
So yeah...fuck those gay assholes...figuratively speaking.
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:25 am
by Vince
I'm curious to see how many votes the "Kill the gays" ballot ends up with in CA (if it ever gets that far). Not because I think a lot of people really want to kill gays, but figuring it's not going to pass anyway they get to give the gay lobby a therapeutic private and personal poke in the eye.
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:57 am
by Malcolm
The whole impetus behind this, I imagine (don't know, don't really care) is that baker in Oregon who was ordered to pay a lesbian couple 150k as a penalty for refusing to bake them a wedding cake.
That's rather excessive. Penalty should be legal fees, a free cake, and not much more.
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:59 pm
by Vince
I stand with the first amendment.
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:04 pm
by TPRJones
I certainly don't think it's appropriate for the government to intervene and force individuals to do business with people they don't want to, regardless of how despicable their reasons are.
That's what destroying people on the internet is for.
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:08 pm
by Vince
I see a huge difference between, "I won't bake you a birthday cake because you're gay" and "I won't bake you a wedding cake because it's against my religious convictions... but I'll bake you a birthday cake."