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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:28 pm
by thibodeaux
At least in one way:
http://www.breitbart.com/article....atnum=0
a small but vocal number of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq has complained that the standard-issue M4 rifles need too much maintenance and jam at the worst possible times
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:00 pm
by Malcolm
Weird. I'd like to say maybe one production run just got slightly fucked. But that's way too convenient.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:56 pm
by unkbill
the M4 is a quality weapon that can pump out more than 3,000 rounds before any failures occur.
For some reason that doesn't sound like a lot of rounds, for one that can fire hundreds in the blink of an eye.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:58 pm
by GORDON
Well, I'd guess 3 rounds a second, anyway.
That's just my uneducated guess, though.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:02 pm
by unkbill
especially when the rifles were on full automatic, which allows hundreds of bullets to be fired a minute.
That is what I was referring to. Hundreds a minute would turn into thousands in a hurry.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:21 pm
by Malcolm
Short, controlled bursts. If you need to put thousands of rounds in the air, get a minigun.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:34 pm
by GORDON
And you're still limited by a 30 (ish) round magazine.
We're talking M4 rifles, right? This isn't a machine gun?
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:11 pm
by thibodeaux
The M4 is the "carbine" version of the M-16. Basically an M-16 with a shorter barrel.
So, no, nobody's firing "hundreds of bullets [sic]...a minute" through one of these. That's reporter-speak for cyclic rate of fire.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:10 pm
by Cakedaddy
I believe that they don't even have full auto any more. 3 round burst and semi are the only options. I could be wrong though.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:12 pm
by Malcolm
Cakedaddy wrote:I believe that they don't even have full auto any more. 3 round burst and semi are the only options. I could be wrong though.
I vaguely remember hearing that as well.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:28 pm
by unkbill
Malcolm wrote:Cakedaddy wrote:I believe that they don't even have full auto any more. 3 round burst and semi are the only options. I could be wrong though.
I vaguely remember hearing that as well.
Guess I wouldn't be a good soldier then. 3 round burst pull the trig 1,000 times. In a long firefight think I would want 2 guns. Only because there is aiming and there is making the fuckers keep there heads down while I take aim.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 pm
by DictionaryDave
The U.S. Army switched to 3 round burst in the early eighties with the upgrade to M16A2. I have used the M16A2, M16A4, and M4 and all have 3 rd burst.
The reason for the change was evaluation of combat in Vietnam. Combat troops were firing thousands of rounds in engagements. Firing a rifle on full auto decreases the accuracy immensely and you can really chew through the rounds.
I have also used the M249 (Squad Automatic Weapon or SAW). Ammo for the SAW is issued in 200 rd drums but you can use a 100 rd link bag or fire 30 rd mags out of it. Being a machine gun when using the bipod or tripod with controlled 7 to 12 rd burst you can still maintain accuracy. If you fire it from the hip or unsupported again your accuracy goes to crap. If you spray and pray your barrel overheats and you can't shoot as accurately.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:37 am
by thibodeaux
What's your take on the article, Dave? Does the M4 jam frequently?
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:10 pm
by GORDON
unkbill wrote:Malcolm wrote:Cakedaddy wrote:I believe that they don't even have full auto any more. 3 round burst and semi are the only options. I could be wrong though.
I vaguely remember hearing that as well.
Guess I wouldn't be a good soldier then. 3 round burst pull the trig 1,000 times. In a long firefight think I would want 2 guns. Only because there is aiming and there is making the fuckers keep there heads down while I take aim.
That's what your buddies are for.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:11 pm
by GORDON
DictionaryDave wrote:The U.S. Army switched to 3 round burst in the early eighties with the upgrade to M16A2. I have used the M16A2, M16A4, and M4 and all have 3 rd burst.
The reason for the change was evaluation of combat in Vietnam. Combat troops were firing thousands of rounds in engagements. Firing a rifle on full auto decreases the accuracy immensely and you can really chew through the rounds.
I have also used the M249 (Squad Automatic Weapon or SAW). Ammo for the SAW is issued in 200 rd drums but you can use a 100 rd link bag or fire 30 rd mags out of it. Being a machine gun when using the bipod or tripod with controlled 7 to 12 rd burst you can still maintain accuracy. If you fire it from the hip or unsupported again your accuracy goes to crap. If you spray and pray your barrel overheats and you can't shoot as accurately.
What did they change on the M16A4 from the A2?
And I haven't fired the M249 since bootcamp. Same day I fired the AT4, if I recall.
Edited By GORDON on 1255464734
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:31 pm
by Malcolm
GORDON wrote:DictionaryDave wrote:The U.S. Army switched to 3 round burst in the early eighties with the upgrade to M16A2. I have used the M16A2, M16A4, and M4 and all have 3 rd burst.
The reason for the change was evaluation of combat in Vietnam. Combat troops were firing thousands of rounds in engagements. Firing a rifle on full auto decreases the accuracy immensely and you can really chew through the rounds.
I have also used the M249 (Squad Automatic Weapon or SAW). Ammo for the SAW is issued in 200 rd drums but you can use a 100 rd link bag or fire 30 rd mags out of it. Being a machine gun when using the bipod or tripod with controlled 7 to 12 rd burst you can still maintain accuracy. If you fire it from the hip or unsupported again your accuracy goes to crap. If you spray and pray your barrel overheats and you can't shoot as accurately.
What did they change on the M16A4 from the A2?
And I haven't fired the M249 since bootcamp. Same day I fired the AT4, if I recall.
The M16A4, now standard issue for front-line U.S. Marine Corps and some U.S. Army units, replaces the combination fixed carry handle/rear iron sight with a MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail, allowing for the rifle to be equipped with a carry handle and/or most military and consumer scopes or sighting systems (usually either an ACOG, EO tech, or M68 CCO).Most of the U.S. Marine Corps' M16A4s are equipped with a Knight's Armament Company M5 RAS handguard, allowing vertical grips, lasers, tactical lights, and other accessories to be attached. In U.S. Army Field Manuals, M16A4s fitted with the RAS are sometimes referred to as M16A4 MWS or Modular Weapon System. This model retains the 3-round burst mode of the M16A2.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:38 pm
by GORDON
So just some crap on the upper receiver near the "carrying handle." I put that in quotes because in the Marines you weren't allowed to carry it by that handle.
Afghanistan = VietNam
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:41 am
by Leisher
Afghanistan = VietNam
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:47 am
by Leisher
Afghanistan = VietNam
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:52 am
by Leisher