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I'll have more on this topic to discuss, obviously based on the thread title, but I want to start with minimum wage.

Catt said yesterday that minimum wage should be $12. We all know $7 and change is way too low. Ds have proposed $15. I've seen it argued as recently as yesterday, thanks to a TikTok sent to me by my wife, that minimum wage for Walmart should be $25.

Setting aside things like "people of a certain age shouldn't be in these jobs", "these weren't meant to support a family", corporations would offset these expenses with higher prices, the arguments about corporations incorrectly using minimum wage for jobs, etc., can we discuss what the proper rate should be for minimum wage? Don't get into anything else if at all possible. Let's just look at the numbers from the most high level view possible.

If Cooter goes to get a job and he gets an entry level job at minimum wage, what should that rate be considering today's U.S. economy? Is that possible to discuss and/or calculate without getting into all those other things?

We can get into what Cooter would need to make to live a normal life later. We can also discuss if certain jobs should have higher minimum wages than others. Right now I just want to see what you guys think is the baseline.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 am what should that rate be considering today's U.S. economy?

Well, first we have to establish what the goal of a minimum wage is. Also, the US economy varies a lot. SF is very different from Vicksburg, MS.

In my mind, a person should be able to basically support themselves on a minimum wage. Sure, they may have to have roommates, etc. But I think they should be able to buy food, etc, without the government supplementing their income.

That suggests the further implementation of "Minimum Hours."

Might as well just take that last step and put in guaranteed minimum income

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:32 am Well, first we have to establish what the goal of a minimum wage is.

Excellent start. I agree with you that a person making minimum wage should be able to "live". Maybe they do need a roommate, but they should be able to exist. Food, shelter, and other essentials.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:32 am Also, the US economy varies a lot. SF is very different from Vicksburg, MS.

That's another great point. Does the minimum wage have to vary based upon a place's cost of living? I would say yes.

So what town/state is the closest to being the baseline for CoL?

Let's establish minimum wage there. Is it Ohio? Nebraska? It definitely won't be a coastal state.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:24 pm Let's establish minimum wage there. Is it Ohio? Nebraska? It definitely won't be a coastal state.

I feel like the minimum wage should apply to what people typically call LCOL (low cost of living) states/locations. Then be adjusted for higher COLs. So $12 may be plenty in NE, but you might be $25 to be the same in SF.

States/localities have the authority to raise the minimum wage, so I'm more concerned about the floor, rather than the flavors.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:29 pm States/localities have the authority to raise the minimum wage, so I'm more concerned about the floor, rather than the flavors.

Fair point. I had said I want to develop a baseline. So where is the baseline? Mississippi? Arkansas?

Beyond that, I think it should be enough to afford the cheapest possible rent (at a legit place, not some seedy hotel), necessary utilities (cable is NOT necessary), food, and some amount of disposable income.

Just a couple of posts in and any logical person can see that the "one size fits all" concept of the minimum wage is horseshit, so why do our leaders cling to it?

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:02 pm Fair point. I had said I want to develop a baseline. So where is the baseline? Mississippi? Arkansas?

So I'd say yes, but... I'd also say there's probably a group, a range, for reasonableness. Not just the absolute bottom, but maybe the 80th or 75th percentile.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:02 pm Just a couple of posts in and any logical person can see that the "one size fits all" concept of the minimum wage is horseshit, so why do our leaders cling to it?

Actually, Hillary Clinton had a proposal for her 2016 campaign of a graduated, COL-based minimum wage proposal. Had about 5 zones, iirc. The left attacked it for being too low, the right attacked it for being too complicated.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:13 pm Feds increasing minimum wage to $15 for their employees.

Why can't we get a law on the minimum wage? Make it $13, index it to something, and move on.

My kid applied to a fast food job a while back, big sign out front "starting at $12-15.". Turns out they consider bennies as part of that hourly wage. Real starting wage was 10 per hour.

Hard to believe they can't keep people.

GORDON wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:59 pm big sign out front "starting at $12-15.". Turns out they consider bennies as part of that hourly wage. Real starting wage was 10 per hour.

That's some BS unless the benny is "$3/hour"

What kind of benny were they counting?

No idea. I never got an answer to that.

The local Wendy's that was advertising jobs starting at $22/hr during the height of the employment shortage are offering salaries at $12/hr now.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:14 pm The local Wendy's that was advertising jobs starting at $22/hr during the height of the employment shortage are offering salaries at $12/hr now.

Is the shortage over?

Yeah we seem flush with available laborers.

I had a feeling these places would just decide understaffed on the verge of closing would become the new normal.