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TheCatt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:35 am Rich people don't pay income taxes.

In 2011, Jeff Bezos, the billionaire CEO of Amazon, paid nothing in federal income taxes. That same year, when his net worth was valued at around $18 billion, he filed for and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children, ProPublica reported.

The outlet obtained confidential tax documents filed with the Internal Revenue Service. It disclosed the information in a new report on some of the world's wealthiest people. ProPublica did not publish its source data or disclose how the information was obtained.

In 2007, and again in 2011, Bezos paid nothing in federal income taxes because he lost more money investing than he earned from other income, the report said. He made so little in 2011, according to the US government tax code, that he was able to file for and receive a tax credit of $1,000 per child — households with over $100,000 in joint income weren't eligible to receive the credit.

Picturing Bezos sitting at his computer sweating over TurboTax Free Edition, claiming that tax credit.

Do we blame the person taking advantage of loopholes, the people who designed the system with the loopholes, or both?

If there was a 15% flat tax, would this be an issue?

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:28 am Do we blame the person taking advantage of loopholes, the people who designed the system with the loopholes, or both?

If there was a 15% flat tax, would this be an issue?

Yes, since that tax just covers income. And then we'd also have a massive national debt.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:03 am

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:28 am Do we blame the person taking advantage of loopholes, the people who designed the system with the loopholes, or both?

If there was a 15% flat tax, would this be an issue?

Yes, since that tax just covers income. And then we'd also have a massive national debt.

As opposed to the almost zero national debt we have now?

How about a flat tax based upon income level? Just wondering if it's possible to eliminate the complex and clearly flawed tax code, while still maintaining the proper level on money so we don't bankrupt the country.

Oh, and this might be crazy, but maybe the government could stop spending so much money?

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:06 am How about a flat tax based upon income level?

What does that mean?

And how do you treat unrealized capital gains. That's the real issue people are pointing to for these billionaires.

You're Jeff Bezos, you have 10% of AMZN, that's almost $200Bn. You can borrow against that stock at 1%, which isn't considered income, if you need cash. That stock doesn't get taxed until he dies.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:11 am

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:06 am How about a flat tax based upon income level?

What does that mean?

And how do you treat unrealized capital gains. That's the real issue people are pointing to for these billionaires.

You're Jeff Bezos, you have 10% of AMZN, that's almost $200Bn. You can borrow against that stock at 1%, which isn't considered income, if you need cash. That stock doesn't get taxed until he dies.

I was implying someone making 0-50K pays 5%, 51K-100K 10%, etc. Just wondering if there is a flat tax solution that works for everyone, so the tax code can be eliminated.

And yes, I realize where the issue lies, but the problem is that everyone is just vilifying Bezos. He's not the issue. The issue is the tax code. Someone has to sit down and figure out how to make the Bezos of the world pay taxes without unfairly taxing them for unrealized profits.

Leisher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:30 am I was implying someone making 0-50K pays 5%, 51K-100K 10%, etc. Just wondering if there is a flat tax solution that works for everyone, so the tax code can be eliminated.

That's a progressive income tax, like we already have.

For most people, the tax code is pretty straight-forward. But it's complicated because of all the different things people can do to hide income.

Reagan tried a luxury tax, and it killed USA shipbuilding.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:38 am That's a progressive income tax, like we already have.

Yeah, just wondering if there was a way to mix the two.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:38 am For most people, the tax code is pretty straight-forward.

Yeah, the wife and I are firmly middle class, and it's pretty simple to do our taxes. Although, I see it getting more complicated in our future as all the retirement stuff kicks in.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:38 am But it's complicated because of all the different things people can do to hide income.

I believe all loopholes to hide income need to be eliminated, BUT I also believe people shouldn't be taxed so much that they use those loopholes. I realize for some too much is $1, but that's where I think percentages should exist so people can really know how much of their income they pay.

I don't know. This is your area, not mine. I just know that what is there now sucks, obviously, but it can't get too Draconian where the government is raping the rich either.

GORDON wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:49 am Reagan tried a luxury tax, and it killed USA shipbuilding.

Yeah, you can't go after items because those are too easy to avoid, and can be harmful when you force the rich to duck them.

Switching things up a bit...

McD's employee closes restaurant to quit.

I'm a bit torn on this one.

On one hand, you took the job. You agreed to everything. Finish your fucking shift like a professional.

On the other, he did take the time to make the sign and go post it in the appropriate place where customers would see it and wouldn't waste time in a line that will never move. I respect this move. I also don't know that he wasn't treated like garbage and had a "final straw" moment during his shift.

So I'm going to withhold judgment for now.

In related news, this employee shortage and higher wages appears to be affecting prices. Gordo and I have a mutual friend who posted today about a chain restaurant, Mongolian BBQ, whose prices are 25% higher now. I have also noticed higher prices at certain restaurants, oddly enough, another restaurant with the same gimmick was the most glaring example. ($2 for an egg to be added to your stir fry. I can buy a dozen eggs for less than $2.)

It's going to be interesting when this $300 extra ends and people are returning to work. I'm betting wages drop back to where they were, but prices will remain high.

There was a LONG comment chain after that discussion, half saying "no one wants to work anymore," the other half calling the first half idiots.

Everything is fine, that's fine.

GORDON wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:16 pm There was a LONG comment chain after that discussion, half saying "no one wants to work anymore," the other half calling the first half idiots.

Everything is fine, that's fine.

Well, free money runs out soon, so we'll see.

But even before the free money started, those people lost jobs.

Oil to reach $100/barrel?

I hope so. That's good for my company.

Buffett resigns from Gates Foundation.

Considering he's resigned from every board except his primary one, I'm guessing at 90 he knows the show is almost over.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:36 pm Inflation hits 13 year high.

Gotta fix those chip shortages.