Welcome to Thunderdome

I agree, mas or menos. Wages need to catch up with productivity. It's better for the economy, over all.

TheCatt wrote: I know why unions exist. I know why they did a lot of good for workers. I can see how they can continue to do good.

Ditto, but like Washington, they are way too corrupt, and do NOT reflect the values and beliefs of their members. That's why we've been seeing a lot of internal strife in unions as many members are sick of them giving money to Democrats.

Unions are like the civil rights groups and the women groups and even the right to life organizations. All needed when they arose, but they've become a business and are more concerned with their business model than they are on their stated mission.

GM's union is on strike.

I really don't know why and I didn't read to find out why. I assume it's the same argument for all strikes, like low pay, long hours, etc.

GM announced plans in November of 2018 to shut the Detroit and Lordstown assembly plants, along with transmission plants in Baltimore and Warren, Michigan.
The UAW has vowed that keeping the plants open would be a key bargaining demand. Late Saturday it said while there had been progress in the talks there was still "significant differences between the parties on wages, health care benefits, temporary employees, job security and profit sharing."
GM says its average hourly employee earns about $90,000 per year, not including benefits. But the number of hourly workers at GM has declined sharply in recent decades, due to a combination of automation, lost market share and outsourcing.

Plant closings, benefits, etc. $90k must be hard to live on?

That's a shitload, in Detroit.

GORDON wrote: That's a shitload, in Detroit.

Understatement of the year.

I wonder why people don't like unions.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:59 am I wonder why people don't like unions.

Probably because this job, that requires a pulse and nothing more, pays better than a lot of jobs that require degrees. Good for him, but the cost of employing this no skill, no education, and no ambition having individual is passed onto consumers, raising everyone's cost of living.

But mostly, Vince was on point here:

Vince wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:09 pm Unions are like the civil rights groups and the women groups and even the right to life organizations. All needed when they arose, but they've become a business and are more concerned with their business model than they are on their stated mission.

As I've stated many times about unions, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Honestly, unions should not need to exist, but people are greedy sacks of shit (talking about the owners here). Beyond that unions should be awesome. Unfortunately, they make workers greedy sacks of shit, corruption comes always comes along, bullying and harassment of non-union workers, the fucking nitpicking of duties, the "vote in national and local elections the way we tell you" horseshit, and so is the part this idiot brags about:

very hard to get fired

Every union member I've ever known, and it's a fucking LOT in a town filled with auto workers (Not to mention all the teachers and cops I know.), lists this as their #1 complaint about their union.

I've heard stories of people spending entire shifts in break rooms, gross incompetence that put other people in danger, stalking, assault, and so on. Nobody ever got fired. Unions always protected them.

At a local auto manufacturer an IT person isn't allowed to carry computers or even move them from one side of the desk to the other. That's "union work".

During a strike, my mom (an office manager), who had nothing to do with the strike and was not in the union, had to cross the picket line daily and had her car spit on, was called all sorts of things, and even had her car damaged. This was by people she worked and socialized with because of how the union pushed the "us vs them" mentality.

Small chain of 4 coffee/sandwich shops unionizes. Unions protest outside home of the owner/founder. He shuts down the restaurants.

The other was a colleague of sorts in the intimate confines of a small business. In the cafes, Darwin saw “his baby,” one barista said, a business he built over 30 years. He was softer, almost sentimental. They would find him in the basement, gazing at a wall crowded with Polaroids of workers from years past.

But as it turned out, there would be no future for Darwin’s.

Fourteen months after nearly 50 employees voted to unionize, Darwin stunned them with an announcement: He was closing the coffee shops altogether before 2023. Workers would be jobless three days before Christmas.

Steven and his wife, Isabel Darwin, did not respond to e-mails from the Globe for comment. But last month, the couple said that a union rally outside their Cambridge home had “resulted in the acceleration of our decision to retire.”

C+I ate there right before they closed. The employees had posted signs about it, kinda complaining.

The employees should buy it and run it better.

GORDON wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:56 pm The employees should buy it and run it better.

Capitalism keeps them down and unable to buy it.

SCOTUS rules with company over union.

I am 100% with SCOTUS on this issue, and it was a bipartisan ruling.

Going on strike does not give you permission to be a vandal, saboteur, or cunt. For anyone in a union who thinks this sort of behavior is ok, know that you're human garbage.

This sort of thing should be dealt with immediately in any court, there should be criminal charges, and it should cost the union overall something during negotiations.

Seriously, do you understand how fucking stupid you have to be to have the mindset of "I want this company to pay me more money, so I'll go damage their equipment because that'll make them want to give it to me!"

https://fortune.com/2023/09/04/uaw-pres ... -workweek/

UAW president aims for the moon

A 46% pay raise. A 32-hour week with 40 hours of pay. A restoration of traditional pensions.

Just a place to start negotiations.

I do love the idea of restoring traditional pensions. However, for that to be successful we need to return to C suites that are concerned with the long term success of their companies. Right now, under the Wall St. method, C suites only care about short term results.

Pensions make no sense.

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:02 pm Pensions make no sense.

'Splain.

Leisher wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:32 pm

TheCatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:02 pm Pensions make no sense.

'Splain.

I guess I should specify "defined benefit pension plans," since there is pretty much no guarantee a company will exist long enough to guarantee that defined benefit.

UAW starts strike.

By midnight Friday, that amounted to approximately 12,700 union workers, including ones at GM in Wentzville, Missouri; Stellantis in Toledo, Ohio; and Ford’s Wayne, Michigan plant.

The union is doing what’s called a “stand-up” strike, where not all union members strike at once.

Shortly after the strike was announced, Fain sent a message to UAW’s email list.

“A few minutes ago, thousands of UAW members at Ford, GM, and Stellantis walked out, marking the beginning of the Stand Up Strike,” his note read.

"This fight is our generation’s defining moment. Not just at the Big Three, but across the entire working class,” he continued, adding, "We will stand up for ourselves. We will stand up for our families. We will stand up for our communities."

I have to admit, I like the idea of the "Stand Up Strike".