Probably because it's really awkward to say, "The dumb-ass in charge doesn't know the law and has no hope of ever understanding it."A spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security cited its policy of not commenting on pending litigation.
Immigration
Re: Immigration
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
This could get interesting. The visa only allows the visa holder to be allowed to travel to the US port of entry. It does not allow entry into the country past the port of entry. Once they reach the port of entry it falls to the Customs and Border Protections where they go from there. Either into the states, or back out of the country. So allowing them to the port of entry, but not allowing them past that point would still be honoring the visa.TheCatt wrote:Federal judge says immigrant visas must be honored, cuz, you know, laws.
LOS ANGELES/NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge in Los Angeles has ruled President Donald Trump's administration must allow immigrants with initial clearance for legal residency to enter the United States from seven Muslim-majority nations, despite an executive order ban.
Tuesday's ruling by U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr follows decisions by federal judges in at least four other states that also limited the executive order Trump issued on Friday.
But it goes further, by focusing on a large group of people from the seven nations of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen - the countries targeted in the executive order - who are outside the United States and trying to enter.
In the temporary ruling, Birotte ordered U.S. officials to refrain from "removing, detaining or blocking the entry of plaintiffs or any other person ... with a valid immigrant visa" who is arriving from one of the seven nations.
According to the U.S. Department of State, immigrant visas are the first step to becoming a lawful permanent resident, or a green card holder.
Birotte's ruling does not apply to tourists, students or business travelers with non-immigrant visas.
The U.S. Department of Justice is reviewing the order and would have no further comment, a spokeswoman for the agency said in an email.
A spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security cited its policy of not commenting on pending litigation.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Re: Immigration
Eat a bag of dicks, Drumpf.A U.S. judge on Friday temporarily blocked President Donald Trump's ban on travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries after Washington state and Minnesota urged a nationwide hold on the executive order that has launched legal battles across the country.
...
Robart ruled against government lawyers' claims that the states of Washington and Minnesota did not have the standing to challenge Trump's order and said they showed their case was likely to succeed.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
To be fair, you completely left out the part that he was forced to because he initially tried to profit off the taxicab drivers and the backlash was severe.Uber CEO tells Drumpf administration to go fuck itself.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Re: Immigration
As I said, it will be interesting to see what happens next. I can see where a judge might have legal standing to force the government to honor the visas, but allowing entry to the country past the port of entry is at the discretion of DHS and has been for about 15 years. Anything beyond allowing the visa holder into the point of entry is a huge judicial overreach and should be shut down by the SCOTUS. Not even sure how SCOTUS (or the appellate) would handle the visa part of it. The Homeland Security act put even the handling and implementation of visas under DHS.TheCatt wrote:Execute order on immigration shutdown?
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Re: Immigration
At least they backed down on blocking the return of permanent residents. That was the part I thought was massively unjust.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Re: Immigration
Agree. And I'm not arguing really whether or not this is good policy. To be honest, I don't think it goes far enough to do much measurable good (as it's being done now). On the flip side, a) people don't have a right to come here, and b) ISIS will not use this as a recruiting tool any more than the US not being a sharia Islamic theocracy will be used as a recruiting tool.TPRJones wrote:At least they backed down on blocking the return of permanent residents. That was the part I thought was massively unjust.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Re: Immigration
Right? If people have visas or green cards (that are valid), then they're not the problem. They've followed the law. It boggles my mind that this part was even an issue.At least they backed down on blocking the return of permanent residents. That was the part I thought was massively unjust.
This.people don't have a right to come here
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Re: Immigration
Agreed. I think we should make American attractive (it is), and be picky.Leisher wrote:Right? If people have visas or green cards (that are valid), then they're not the problem. They've followed the law. It boggles my mind that this part was even an issue.At least they backed down on blocking the return of permanent residents. That was the part I thought was massively unjust.
This.people don't have a right to come here
It's not me, it's someone else.
Re: Immigration
Wouldn't that then include booting out the people (regardless of nationality) we have who aren't giving a shit, trying to live off the public dime, etc. to open up more room for other talented/deserving potential citizens?TheCatt wrote:Agreed. I think we should make American attractive (it is), and be picky.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
I mean, I'm not necessarily against that... but no. Once you're in the door, you're part of the club.Malcolm wrote:Wouldn't that then include booting out the people (regardless of nationality) we have who aren't giving a shit, trying to live off the public dime, etc. to open up more room for other talented/deserving potential citizens?TheCatt wrote:Agreed. I think we should make American attractive (it is), and be picky.
It's not me, it's someone else.
Re: Immigration
Then you're going to have a fuckload of people willing to do anything to get in the door by any loophole possible. If we're going to let the loophole abusers (slave labour H1-B visa holders, people who marry then divorce a citizen to gain citizenship, etc.) in and then protect them like your own, then it seems like a smack in the dick to legit people who try to go through the process correctly and get turned away because "we have to be picky and only let in the best."TheCatt wrote:I mean, I'm not necessarily against that... but no. Once you're in the door, you're part of the club.Malcolm wrote:Wouldn't that then include booting out the people (regardless of nationality) we have who aren't giving a shit, trying to live off the public dime, etc. to open up more room for other talented/deserving potential citizens?TheCatt wrote:Agreed. I think we should make American attractive (it is), and be picky.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
I think I'd be ok with certain "gotchas" being put on that loophole.people who marry then divorce a citizen to gain citizenship
Divorce within X amount of time and lose your citizenship.
And if you're not ok with that, then how about making it slightly more difficult to get married?
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Re: Immigration
What's X? Because for those X years, that means their stay is at the mercy of their spouse.Leisher wrote:I think I'd be ok with certain "gotchas" being put on that loophole.people who marry then divorce a citizen to gain citizenship
Divorce within X amount of time and lose your citizenship.
And if you're not ok with that, then how about making it slightly more difficult to get married?
As for the other one, I'm always for making it more difficult for people to get married. That's just common sense.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
I'm down for this, but it sounds like it would step on all kinds of toes? Religious, State's rights, Constitutional(I actually have no idea what our rights are as far as being allowed to marry)Leisher wrote:And if you're not ok with that, then how about making it slightly more difficult to get married?people who marry then divorce a citizen to gain citizenship
Re: Immigration
The faithful can be married/joined/unioned/soulmated/wtf-ever and who cares. That doesn't mean shit until a marriage license is filed.Troy wrote:I'm down for this, but it sounds like it would step on all kinds of toes? Religious, State's rights, Constitutional(I actually have no idea what our rights are as far as being allowed to marry)Leisher wrote:And if you're not ok with that, then how about making it slightly more difficult to get married?people who marry then divorce a citizen to gain citizenship
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: Immigration
That's why I added the other option. I figured folks would be at their spouse's mercy and this could, potentially, lead to bad things.What's X? Because for those X years, that means their stay is at the mercy of their spouse.
So, why not make folks wait to get married? Instead of allowing for folks to get a license and married the same day, make them file paperwork and go through a waiting process.
You've got to wait for a gun, why not a marriage license?
And don't give me the "freedom" argument. You can't drive until you're 16, can join the military at 18, can't choose to smoke until you're 18, and can't choose to drink until you're 21...Oh, and can't rent a car until you're 25.
We make exceptions on freedom all the time.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
Re: Immigration
Can't watch Ultra Porn until you're 60.
It's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Re: Immigration
Funny you mention that. Smoking and drinking -- they pretty much just make you hand an ID over. Those aren't quite good analogies for me here. One doesn't go out and "get married" for one night the same way one goes out and gets blitzed or smokes an entire Cuban tobacco harvest. The other things you mention have significant sets of rules around them. You're inviting the same treatment for marriage? Don't we just run blood tests nowadays and call it good?So, why not make folks wait to get married? Instead of allowing for folks to get a license and married the same day, make them file paperwork and go through a waiting process.
You've got to wait for a gun, why not a marriage license?
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."