I think he's a swinger.
Borderlands 2
Stranger is a big fan of solo queue in LoL too.
I think he's a swinger.
I think he's a swinger.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I played the first BL, with all of the expansions as part of a group of four. We only played it when the rest of the group was available. So, we co-oped the entire game, with no one moving ahead, or being left behind. And it didn't take that long. It really is the only way to play these games. You guys are like a bunch of little kids just ripping into everything on Christmas morning and not enjoying the full experience because you just can't wait. I can't imagine playing a co-op game like this one by myself.
I played the first BL, with all of the expansions as part of a group of four. We only played it when the rest of the group was available. So, we co-oped the entire game, with no one moving ahead, or being left behind. And it didn't take that long.
First of all, why are you here trying to give us shit if you've already got three people to play with? Go play with them, and stop being negative towards this group. Perhaps if you actually tried to play with this group, you'd have more success. I don't ever remember you wanting to co-op Borderlands, and I've mentioned that I was up for playing L4D2 co-op, but you never asked me to join in.
Secondly, you play LoL almost every single night with people from this forum.
Third, BL2 is massive. By all accounts it's much larger than the first game. It's going to take some time to get through. Randomly getting on some nights, not others, getting on at 11, then bitching when others have to log off at 1, etc. isn't going to cut it.
Fourth, this thread was full of co-op talk, and not once did you interject to say anything like, "Hey let's co-op this game", and instead you have simply said things like, "this is why I don't co-op with this group."
Fifth, this is just a mess from start to finish:
It really is the only way to play these games. You guys are like a bunch of little kids just ripping into everything on Christmas morning and not enjoying the full experience because you just can't wait. I can't imagine playing a co-op game like this one by myself.
You're not seriously trying to dictate to people how they should play games are you?
We could go on for days about why a person might choose to play alone. Perhaps they're too excited because the Borderlands series is awesome? Perhaps they don't mind actually using a product they spent their money on even if it means seeing the story before their friends? Perhaps they want to create various characters for use in solo play, and co-op, and maybe not just a single co-op group? Perhaps they don't want to have someone criticizing their play and talking over some of the game's one liners? Perhaps they want to explore the world as much as possible and find easter eggs instead of making a mad dash through missions? Maybe they don't mind playing through the game more than once?
Seriously, a million different reasons.
Let me ask you this: Sex is the ultimate co-op experience, right? (If you answered "no" you're doing it wrong.) So why do people still masturbate even though they have a partner willing and able?
Because sometimes it's easier to do things alone, and the end result, when you factor out all the headaches, can be more enjoyable.
In my case, this is the first game in YEARS that I've purchased at full price. I'm choosing to not sit on my thumbs, and wait for Malcolm's to be shipped, Stranger to get a PC, Gordo to play through the first one, or for you to stop complaining about us, and actually suggest some co-op.
Others here are in the same boat as you'd know if you read the entire thread.
Now if you want to stop putting us down, and instead start suggesting co-op I'm listening. Malcolm wants to co-op, and I'm sure we could talk Gordon into it too. I'd be more than happy to create a brand new character, and not say shit about anything that occurs in game.
And let's be honest, just how far into the game do you think I'm going to progress when I get about 2-3 hours a week that isn't spent on family, work, or LoL?
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
I'm not even remotely worried about having a character "get held back" or whatever by co-op play. So what? You can always keep a dude on the sidelines for that so everyone's sync'd up. I also guarantee I'll play through this with at least a couple different classes, so I'm not even worried about clashing character classes during co-op.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I've stopped trying to co-op since Diablo 2 came out. One of the last games I paid full price for. By the time we all got it and were ready to go, you (Leisher) had already beat it. It instantly killed any attempt to co-op it. And, as you know, it never was. Knowing the history of playing ahead by this group, I've never attempted to get a co-op group together. You guys don't subscribe to the same play style. You play the game solo, then replay it co-op with spoilers. It would be too easy for you to ruin something, either by accident, or out of frustration (because we can't figure it out and you already know the solution). All of the exciting revelations during the game are at risk of being ruined when you co-op with someone who's played it already.
And I will be playing with my old BL group. Right after we finish L4D2 (which you played through once, maybe even twice before I even bought the game) and Neverwinter Nights 2. Yes, those are old games. But, I bet they are still going to be fun to play, even today. Then BL2 will be on sale and we'll buy and play that, and have just as much fun as you are now, for half the price. We might even have MORE fun with all the updates and bugs removed. And it's not like we are sitting around doing nothing between games. There are years worth of games in our Steam libraries that we can solo play.
LoL is hardly co-op. It's multiplayer. Not co-op. There's nothing you could do that would ruin the storyline. Because there isn't one!
I'm not dictating how you HAVE to play. I'm saying that the game is much more fun when playing with other people. BL is built to be co-oped. And to play it any other way is removing a whole section of the game's fun. Yes, you can play by yourself and have fun. But it's MORE fun when played with others. The first time through a game (with a good story) is always best the first time through. And dropping co-op for the first run through is nuts, in my opinion. Why remove that part of the game?!?
So, in summary:
1. I learned LONG ago that this group does not wait for the rest of the group. Busting ass through the game solo is > co-oping for some reason.
2. If a game is built to be co-oped, then it should be. Playing it any other way is handicapping the amount of fun you can have with the game. Still fun? Yes. Less fun? Yes.
3. Not dictating how you should play. Saying you are crazy for playing the way you play! Again, soloing a co-op game is gimping the fun level.
4. I didn't participate in, or try to organize, a co-op session here because I know you don't subscribe to 1-3. And that's why I don't co-op with this group. Except for Gordon. He has the ability/desire to subscribe to 1-3.
And I will be playing with my old BL group. Right after we finish L4D2 (which you played through once, maybe even twice before I even bought the game) and Neverwinter Nights 2. Yes, those are old games. But, I bet they are still going to be fun to play, even today. Then BL2 will be on sale and we'll buy and play that, and have just as much fun as you are now, for half the price. We might even have MORE fun with all the updates and bugs removed. And it's not like we are sitting around doing nothing between games. There are years worth of games in our Steam libraries that we can solo play.
LoL is hardly co-op. It's multiplayer. Not co-op. There's nothing you could do that would ruin the storyline. Because there isn't one!
I'm not dictating how you HAVE to play. I'm saying that the game is much more fun when playing with other people. BL is built to be co-oped. And to play it any other way is removing a whole section of the game's fun. Yes, you can play by yourself and have fun. But it's MORE fun when played with others. The first time through a game (with a good story) is always best the first time through. And dropping co-op for the first run through is nuts, in my opinion. Why remove that part of the game?!?
So, in summary:
1. I learned LONG ago that this group does not wait for the rest of the group. Busting ass through the game solo is > co-oping for some reason.
2. If a game is built to be co-oped, then it should be. Playing it any other way is handicapping the amount of fun you can have with the game. Still fun? Yes. Less fun? Yes.
3. Not dictating how you should play. Saying you are crazy for playing the way you play! Again, soloing a co-op game is gimping the fun level.
4. I didn't participate in, or try to organize, a co-op session here because I know you don't subscribe to 1-3. And that's why I don't co-op with this group. Except for Gordon. He has the ability/desire to subscribe to 1-3.
In response to all of that, the amount of effort it would take to coordinate four people going through a game only when all schedules allowed ... fucking Christ, that would take FOREVER. It'd almost need to be intentionally managed.Cakedaddy wrote:So, in summary:
1. I learned LONG ago that this group does not wait for the rest of the group. Busting ass through the game solo is > co-oping for some reason.
2. If a game is built to be co-oped, then it should be. Playing it any other way is handicapping the amount of fun you can have with the game. Still fun? Yes. Less fun? Yes.
3. Not dictating how you should play. Saying you are crazy for playing the way you play! Again, soloing a co-op game is gimping the fun level.
4. I didn't participate in, or try to organize, a co-op session here because I know you don't subscribe to 1-3. And that's why I don't co-op with this group. Except for Gordon. He has the ability/desire to subscribe to 1-3.
As for the spoiling things, damn, do you make sure all the people you see movies with haven't seen them either? I can't even imagine what listening to music is like.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
I've multi'd plenty of games with my core group.
Neverwinter Nights
L4D
Titan Quest
BL
That's some that jumps to mind. I know there have been others. It's not that hard to coordinate. The games are fun. People WANT to play them. It's not like we are pulling teeth. We play LoL every night, because it's fun. That could just as easily be any other game out there. The 'overhead' of coordinating multiplay is exaggerated here.
Neverwinter Nights
L4D
Titan Quest
BL
That's some that jumps to mind. I know there have been others. It's not that hard to coordinate. The games are fun. People WANT to play them. It's not like we are pulling teeth. We play LoL every night, because it's fun. That could just as easily be any other game out there. The 'overhead' of coordinating multiplay is exaggerated here.
I've stopped trying to co-op since Diablo 2 came out. One of the last games I paid full price for. By the time we all got it and were ready to go, you (Leisher) had already beat it. It instantly killed any attempt to co-op it.
This is completely wrong.
Diablo sucks. That's why I didn't get too into co-oping it. I never found that game to be much fun at all. I just didn't see the point. At the time, I was far more into FPS games.
Knowing the history of playing ahead by this group, I've never attempted to get a co-op group together. You guys don't subscribe to the same play style. You play the game solo, then replay it co-op with spoilers. It would be too easy for you to ruin something, either by accident, or out of frustration (because we can't figure it out and you already know the solution). All of the exciting revelations during the game are at risk of being ruined when you co-op with someone who's played it already.
This is also bullshit.
Sorry, but trying to co-op Diablo, and not succeeding shouldn't equal "quit forever". That's a bitch attitude.
We've played Duke Nukem, Total Annihilation, Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, that one Triad game (remember that?), various Command & Conquer games, League of Legends, Team Fortress 1 & 2, Counter Strike, EVE (some more than others), Serious Sam 2, etc.
I even tried playing Neverwinter Nights with you guys, but stopped after the first night was 3 hours of making zero progress in game, and just standing around fighting each other (in game) or fucking around with items, spells, etc. You want to talk about no fun at all...
The point is: show me a history of us not having time to game. You can't because we play together all the time. So that negates that entire aspect of your argument.
It also invalidates the concept of getting all these folks together as being impossible. It's not. It can be done, but people have to try. So while I agree with you that there isn't that much overhead into getting people together, I'm saying that you aren't even bothering to try. At least when it comes to me, and the denizens of these forums.
And to be fair, who has been the biggest question mark in LoL over the past year? You. If we said the last few months it'd be Stranger, but over the year, you're the one who has had the most internet/computer issues. You're the only one who won't get on the forums and indicate if you'll be on that night. Gordo and I have spent countless nights chatting in Steam or sitting there with the game launched while doing other things only to have you never get online. Or, and this is even better, we've waited while you finished playing some other game, like L4D2.
Now that's not suggesting that you're the only person who makes us wait, doesn't show up, etc., but you're definitely the champ of it.
While you play with your "core group" because we "ruin games", I've co-oped through multiple Halos and Borderlands with Stranger. Guess what? I went through all those stories for the first time while playing with him.
The only reason he and I aren't playing through Borderlands 2 is because he's on the X-Box version, and I bought the PC version.
I've also begged folks around here to co-op L4D and then L4D2. Two games that I would like to point out take about 15 minutes per level, and are meant to be played over and over again, not just once through. So suggesting someone shouldn't go through them first is like saying someone should play a game of Madden before multiing it because they will spoil the ending...
So, in summary:
1. I learned LONG ago that this group does not wait for the rest of the group. Busting ass through the game solo is > co-oping for some reason.
2. If a game is built to be co-oped, then it should be. Playing it any other way is handicapping the amount of fun you can have with the game. Still fun? Yes. Less fun? Yes.
3. Not dictating how you should play. Saying you are crazy for playing the way you play! Again, soloing a co-op game is gimping the fun level.
4. I didn't participate in, or try to organize, a co-op session here because I know you don't subscribe to 1-3. And that's why I don't co-op with this group. Except for Gordon. He has the ability/desire to subscribe to 1-3.
Your opinions are meaningless when it comes to co-op. Any game that can be played by 1 or more people means it's as legit when 1 person is playing it or more than one. The only exception to this are games like LoL. If it's a story driven game though, solo is just fine.
Sometimes folks just want to game alone, or nobody else is interested in playing that game, so they punch through alone. Did you never play Diablo II just because nobody would play with you?
Considering me, you, and Gordo are the only folks on these forums who have been around since the beginning, and played all the games I listed, #4 is about me, not "this group", particularly since you removed Gordo from the equation.
We game constantly. CONSTANTLY. Yet you want to make excuses about why we don't "co-op" and blame it on me. Seriously, what other games have you ever tried to co-op with me in particular? (I should point out that Serious Sam 2 was co-op, but that doesn't count because our success there doesn't fit your argument.)
At the end of the day, this is all about you.
YOU don't want anyone playing through the game before YOU. YOU are worried that someone might leak a spoiler. YOU aren't going to pay full price at the moment, so YOU expect people who are dying to play this game to wait for YOU to get around to buying it and playing it.
Everyone needs to play on YOUR schedule and YOUR way.
Seriously though, it's all my fault. You once tried to "co-op" Diablo II with me, and I didn't have my heart into it. Ignore the YEARS of co-op and multi-gaming we've done since.
"Happy slaves are the worst enemies of freedom." - Marie Von Ebner
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies..." - Orwell
Hey, lets keep this a thread about Borderlands!! not about your past experiences with co-op gaming. If ya don't like it SO WHAT! no hair off our ass.
But if i can put in my 2 cents i would say this. Borderlands is about the LOOT! Its about finding them truely rare weapons that make your game experiance that much more fun. So yes, its kinda like christmas cause you never know whats in that next chest, or what that boss is gonna drop.
So knowing the story in advance has no bearing whatsoever on the enjoyment of the game. Infact, after the first playthough they ramp up the difficulty for the second and i've even heard the third for B2. And the weapon drops are even better for those playthroughs. Yes, B2 has a story, and its much better than the first...
Ahh fuck it!! i don't need to explain this game to someone who doesn't get it. I enjoy it and thats all i really care about. Sure, i wish i was co-op with Leisher, he's one of my best friends (love you Leisher!) but i don't have that choice right now. But i'm not letting that ruin my experiance.
So back to Borderlands. Anyone find a sweet new weapon yet?????
But if i can put in my 2 cents i would say this. Borderlands is about the LOOT! Its about finding them truely rare weapons that make your game experiance that much more fun. So yes, its kinda like christmas cause you never know whats in that next chest, or what that boss is gonna drop.
So knowing the story in advance has no bearing whatsoever on the enjoyment of the game. Infact, after the first playthough they ramp up the difficulty for the second and i've even heard the third for B2. And the weapon drops are even better for those playthroughs. Yes, B2 has a story, and its much better than the first...
Ahh fuck it!! i don't need to explain this game to someone who doesn't get it. I enjoy it and thats all i really care about. Sure, i wish i was co-op with Leisher, he's one of my best friends (love you Leisher!) but i don't have that choice right now. But i'm not letting that ruin my experiance.
So back to Borderlands. Anyone find a sweet new weapon yet?????
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
No. I never played Diablo 2 because I didn't have anyone to co-op it with.
You and I co-oped Diablo, until you quit to play UO. We were going to co-op Baulder's Gate, but Gordon ruined that. After we all spent however long it was to create our characters, go through the tutorials, etc. Gordon decided it would be more fun to start killing all the towns folk, and then us. I think we tried one more time after that with Gordon promising not to be a griefer. But that time fell apart too because we never did co-op it. Another game I bought but never played because my co-op partners ditched me. Yes, we co-oped Serious Sam 2. The rest of those games are multi player. Not co-op. You don't co-op with someone through Command and Conquer, Eve, TA, etc. And speaking of UO, I don't remember the early days of EA UO. I remember spending all of my time with Gordon pushing the stick so that we were big enough to play with everyone else. By the time we were, I think you were done with the game. Most recently, when we were playing on that player run server, we were all playing out of the forge. You bought your own house outside of Brit and spent hours playing by yourself. I think we were on the same screen maybe 5 times for about 2 minutes each. Point being, besides SS2, those games are horrible examples of co-op. Because they aren't. We didn't cooperatively play through C&C games. In fact, I'd say it was the exact opposite! Unless you and Gordon cooperatively ganged up on me every game. And then it still doesn't count. I'll also point out that I never played the story lines of those games. I only skirmished. That was the only reason I played those games, and the only way I played them.
I have not once said that we don't game together. Not once. I have said that we don't co-op together. Out of all the co-op games that have come and gone, how many have we actually co-oped? A very very very small percentage.
I would love to co-op games with you. However, you would never play by my rules. So it could never work out. I'm not the only one with these rules. I remember when NW2 came out. We discussed co-oping it here. But, as soon as it came out, Vince and I believe you both bought it and immediately played through it. Even Gordon didn't want to co-op with you guys at that point.
There was ONE night where I was playing L4D2 since we started playing LoL.
You golf. You have poker night. You have kids you put to bed late. You are up at the lake. We wait on you more than I think you realize. I'll keep the title of Champ (because I'm the best at everything I do!). But you have your own issues. I'll say here what I said to Gordon one night "Tell Leisher to pretend I was golfing last night".
And I would say this is about both of us. You have very loose rules when it comes to co-op. I have very strict rules. My core group believes in those, and you and Stranger believe in yours. Should I try to suggest you not play BL2 until the whole group is ready? Would that have been possible? I am ALL about mulit/co-op gaming. If you check my logs, you'll see that 80% of my gaming is done in one form of mulit or another. If I knew without a doubt that you'd play by my rules, I would buy BL2 right now and we'd multi it. But you don't want to. We have differing views on this. So, I don't try. I'd be happy to co-op L4D with you, since I've already been through it. But we won't because there are better games to play.
To me, soloing a good co-op game is like playing a flight simulator without a joystick. I would buy ANY game to co-op with people. It's my favorite type of game. But if my partners ditched me, the game would never be played again, unless I found a new group. I love flight sims and buy them all the time. But if my joystick broke and they stopped making joysticks, those games would never be played again.
So, you can blame me for not co-oping. That's fine. But it just comes down to us having different views on the subject. I have my rules and you have yours and they don't mix.
Stranger:
"This is about BL2, not co-oping! Stop talking about it! But here's my two cents. . . ."
And I think you are crazy to say that BL2 is about the loot and then the storyline. You are almost implying that BL2 doesn't need a storyline because it has loot. If there's no point to opening the chest, you are just grinding for the sake of grinding. And that's only fun for so long. You have to have a story line pushing you to open that next chest.
Edited By Cakedaddy on 1348268898
You and I co-oped Diablo, until you quit to play UO. We were going to co-op Baulder's Gate, but Gordon ruined that. After we all spent however long it was to create our characters, go through the tutorials, etc. Gordon decided it would be more fun to start killing all the towns folk, and then us. I think we tried one more time after that with Gordon promising not to be a griefer. But that time fell apart too because we never did co-op it. Another game I bought but never played because my co-op partners ditched me. Yes, we co-oped Serious Sam 2. The rest of those games are multi player. Not co-op. You don't co-op with someone through Command and Conquer, Eve, TA, etc. And speaking of UO, I don't remember the early days of EA UO. I remember spending all of my time with Gordon pushing the stick so that we were big enough to play with everyone else. By the time we were, I think you were done with the game. Most recently, when we were playing on that player run server, we were all playing out of the forge. You bought your own house outside of Brit and spent hours playing by yourself. I think we were on the same screen maybe 5 times for about 2 minutes each. Point being, besides SS2, those games are horrible examples of co-op. Because they aren't. We didn't cooperatively play through C&C games. In fact, I'd say it was the exact opposite! Unless you and Gordon cooperatively ganged up on me every game. And then it still doesn't count. I'll also point out that I never played the story lines of those games. I only skirmished. That was the only reason I played those games, and the only way I played them.
I have not once said that we don't game together. Not once. I have said that we don't co-op together. Out of all the co-op games that have come and gone, how many have we actually co-oped? A very very very small percentage.
I would love to co-op games with you. However, you would never play by my rules. So it could never work out. I'm not the only one with these rules. I remember when NW2 came out. We discussed co-oping it here. But, as soon as it came out, Vince and I believe you both bought it and immediately played through it. Even Gordon didn't want to co-op with you guys at that point.
There was ONE night where I was playing L4D2 since we started playing LoL.
You golf. You have poker night. You have kids you put to bed late. You are up at the lake. We wait on you more than I think you realize. I'll keep the title of Champ (because I'm the best at everything I do!). But you have your own issues. I'll say here what I said to Gordon one night "Tell Leisher to pretend I was golfing last night".
And I would say this is about both of us. You have very loose rules when it comes to co-op. I have very strict rules. My core group believes in those, and you and Stranger believe in yours. Should I try to suggest you not play BL2 until the whole group is ready? Would that have been possible? I am ALL about mulit/co-op gaming. If you check my logs, you'll see that 80% of my gaming is done in one form of mulit or another. If I knew without a doubt that you'd play by my rules, I would buy BL2 right now and we'd multi it. But you don't want to. We have differing views on this. So, I don't try. I'd be happy to co-op L4D with you, since I've already been through it. But we won't because there are better games to play.
To me, soloing a good co-op game is like playing a flight simulator without a joystick. I would buy ANY game to co-op with people. It's my favorite type of game. But if my partners ditched me, the game would never be played again, unless I found a new group. I love flight sims and buy them all the time. But if my joystick broke and they stopped making joysticks, those games would never be played again.
So, you can blame me for not co-oping. That's fine. But it just comes down to us having different views on the subject. I have my rules and you have yours and they don't mix.
Stranger:
"This is about BL2, not co-oping! Stop talking about it! But here's my two cents. . . ."
And I think you are crazy to say that BL2 is about the loot and then the storyline. You are almost implying that BL2 doesn't need a storyline because it has loot. If there's no point to opening the chest, you are just grinding for the sake of grinding. And that's only fun for so long. You have to have a story line pushing you to open that next chest.
Edited By Cakedaddy on 1348268898
You have to have a story line pushing you to open that next chest.
No, I just need a wave of critters coming at me that force me to look for a better gun.
On a completely unrelated note, a certain package arrived today. Let's see if it installs.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
My first exposure to Steam is it tacking on about an hour of install time with its fucking updates. I'm starting out with a real "fuck you" kind of feeling towards it.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
First impression of Steam's UI is complete and total ass for response time. Can't find you via search, Leish. I'm EchoVerbatim. Try to look me up. Maybe the bandwidth is just fucked because it's downloading.
EDIT: Holy fuck, search just pulled its head out of its ass.
Edited By Malcolm on 1348276380
EDIT: Holy fuck, search just pulled its head out of its ass.
Edited By Malcolm on 1348276380
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."