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Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:48 am
by GORDON
Current on amazon:
1,986 Reviews
5 star: 2% (51)
4 star: 1% (38)
3 star: 0% (18)
2 star: 2% (47)
1 star: 92% (1,832)
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:09 am
by TPRJones
I know it sounds really stupid, but the suggestion of good will isn't a bad idea.
Gee, thanks. :p But I was completely serious. There are NO technological gimicks that will stop software piracy. There are very few that actually slow it down at all, and every one of those is far more of an annoyance to the legitimate customers than any of the pirates.
At this point the only defense against rampant piracy is the good will of your customers. There is NO other reasonably effective possiblity currently available. That's not to say that a techonological solution won't be worked up later, but there's nothing even close available now.
Right now software distributors are - as my grandfather would say - like cats selling bones at a dog show. They better make those dogs really like those bones and not want to eat them instead if they expect to survive the show.
Edited By TPRJones on 1221055923
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:20 am
by GORDON
This isn't even a new issue. It's been happening at lest 20 years, and yet people are still making pc games... the difference it, never before has it been so much harder to play a game as a paying customer than as a pirate.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:22 am
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:If I were them, I'd say fuck PC gamers, and just make console games.
Again, console games are just as vulnerable.
Prove it. Because I'd love to know how to play copied games on my Wii or XBox 360.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:23 am
by TheCatt
TPRJones wrote:I know it sounds really stupid, but the suggestion of good will isn't a bad idea.
Gee, thanks. :p But I was completely serious. There are NO technological gimicks that will stop software piracy. There are very few that actually slow it down at all, and every one of those is far more of an annoyance to the legitimate customers than any of the pirates.
Show me how to pirate games on the Wii, XBox 360, and PS3 then.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:36 pm
by TPRJones
I haven't done it for those systems because I'm too cheap to own one. Except the Wii, and there's nothing on it worth pirating. I would lay odds that a little google searching would come up with some interesting results, though.
I did have my old PS2 modded to play copied games, though. Does that count for anything?
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:18 pm
by Malcolm
I guarantee it's possible. Just a matter of how badly you wanna do it.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:09 pm
by TheCatt
Malcolm wrote:I guarantee it's possible. Just a matter of how badly you wanna do it.
Which would disprove
Again, console games are just as vulnerable.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:39 pm
by TPRJones
Indeed they aren't "just" as vulnerable, in the sense that all you have to do now for pirated PC games is fire up bittorrent. It's more along the lines of cracking copyright on the C64, where it was certainly doable but took a little effort. The difference being that on the C64 you had to play around with software like Fasthack, but on consoles you have to install a quick hardware hack.
But it's still easier to play copied games on a console than it is to properly install and run a legitimate copy of a game on a PC that has borked copy protection on it.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:41 pm
by WSGrundy
GORDON wrote:I'll not be purchasing RA3 with that DRM.
EA is changing things for Red Alert 3. The game will still contain SecuROM, EA has changed the maximum number of installs from 3 to 5 and promises to "never re-authenticate an installation online after the first launch."
Nothing has been said about Spore yet but it still has securom which pisses me off.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:38 pm
by Malcolm
Until the holy grail of media comes out, piracy will always be a possibility. Just like till the key to immortality is discovered, death is always a possibility. Just try not to piss off enough people so that the sheer numbers kill you.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:53 pm
by GORDON
I think you have to control hardware before you can keep people from using it however they see fit. A sort of Big Brother that will disallow you from doing illegal things stemming from incorrect thoughts.
It would probably work at Apple, depending on how the current lawsuit goes with the guys selling Apple-compatible PC's. Apple is suing them, of course.
Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:31 pm
by TheCatt
As I understand it, piracy on Apple is harder. Something about automatic product updates and stuff.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:14 am
by Leisher
I used to have a friend who had binder after binder of PC games, console games, and movies all on burned CDs and DVDs.
I have been offered on numerous occasions to have my console of choice altered to run pirated console discs.
You can purchase hard drives for certain consoles that contain a ton of pirated games. This is one of the reasons console makers didn't want to include hard drives in this generation and why they may not in the future.
The only difference between console piracy and PC piracy is ease of access. Right now the PC pirates have an advantage with google and their "consumers" actually surfing their site with the machine they want to get stuff for. Console folks, particularly the kiddies, don't have the same luxury.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:15 am
by GORDON
As of right now, Amazon Spore reviews:
2,133 Reviews
5 star: 2% (57)
4 star: 1% (42)
3 star: 0% (21)
2 star: 2% (52)
1 star: 91% (1,961)
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:24 am
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:The only difference between console piracy and PC piracy is ease of access. Right now the PC pirates have an advantage with google and their "consumers" actually surfing their site with the machine they want to get stuff for. Console folks, particularly the kiddies, don't have the same luxury.
So... this statement is not correct:
Again, console games are just as vulnerable.
In order to get something modded, you have to a) pay for it and b) be willing to risk losing that console. In order to run pirated games on a PC you have to a)download them.
That is vastly different.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:45 pm
by Leisher
Like I said Catt, access. They're still readily available, thus just as vulnerable.
Besides, PC pirating comes with "obstacles" as well.
A) You have to pay for an internet connection if you're downloading anything. Consoles folks don't. What's $100-200 for a console hard drive full of games versus months of internet access payments?
B) It's a lot easier to get caught downloading pirated software than it is to buy a hard drive or a disc from a friend or co-worker. Sure, they could roll on you, but law enforcement typically isn't looking for you or them, they're looking for the folks who do the mass distribution, as that big pirating ring here in the U.S. recently discovered.
C) There are viruses to content with.
D) It takes more knowledge to download a pirated PC game than to play pirated console games.
So I stand by my statement as being correct, I just think we're talking semantics.
Either way, there are other factors that must be taken into account when thinking of dropping development for PC Games. Examples:
-Speculation that this may have been the last generation of consoles.
-Development costs on the PC being far cheaper (depending on certain factors obviously) on average.
-No license fees for developer kits to develop a game for the PC.
-The fact that consoles are finding it harder to disguise the fact that they're PCs.
-New technology/development paths being investigated that would make PCs more console-like in the way they play games.
And yeah, I fully concede that some of those examples are future items, but they still must be considered in the overall big picture of whether or not to focus one's company on PC or console development.
One final example is the Orange Box. It's a MONSTER hit, but it never wouldn't made the impact it did if it were a console only release. Some genres and story telling technologies play better on one platform over another.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:57 pm
by TheCatt
Leisher wrote:Like I said Catt, access. They're still readily available, thus just as vulnerable.
That's bullshit.
They aren't as vulnerable if people aren't willing to do it.
Besides, PC pirating comes with "obstacles" as well.
A) You have to pay for an internet connection if you're downloading anything. Consoles folks don't. What's $100-200 for a console hard drive full of games versus months of internet access payments?
People already have the internet, they aren't paying for it just to get games.
B) It's a lot easier to get caught downloading pirated software than it is to buy a hard drive or a disc from a friend or co-worker. Sure, they could roll on you, but law enforcement typically isn't looking for you or them, they're looking for the folks who do the mass distribution, as that big pirating ring here in the U.S. recently discovered.
Neither happens in significant numbers.
D) It takes more knowledge to download a pirated PC game than to play pirated console games.
Playing pirated PCs games was easy. I've no clue how to play pirated Wii/XBox 360 games. I've even tried looking.
Consoles are way more secure, and have much lower piracy rates, and are not nearly as vulnerable to piracy.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:26 pm
by Leisher
Maybe it's just my area or folks I know, but I've always known how to get pirated console games.
I also know the process is much easier than grabbing a PC game due to the hard drives (speaking in terms of knowledge and time only), that's what I'm basing my statement on. I'm not saying consoles games are stolen more often, I'm just saying they're as vulnerable.
Whether or not such vulnerability or options to pirate are marketed well has nothing to do with my point.
But I absolutely, positively agree that currently more PC games are being pirated.
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:01 pm
by GORDON
I'd like to say again that I absolutely, positively hope EA gets out of the PC game business.