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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:17 pm
by TPRJones
I have no doubt at all that they'll work their way to suing churches that won't perform the service anyway...
I can imagine a situation where the couple and their family have been a part of the church for a long time and the other church members agree they should get married in their church but the preacher refuses and it leads to a fight.
But I sincerely doubt there would be a case where a couple that wasn't already part of the specific church was refused and sued over it. They'd absolutely lose and would be universally reviled for sueing.
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:26 pm
by Vince
TPRJones wrote:I can imagine a situation where the couple and their family have been a part of the church for a long time and the other church members agree they should get married in their church but the preacher refuses and it leads to a fight.
If you've gone to the church your entire life and didn't figure out their stance on gay marriage before trying to get married there, then you paid about as much attention as Obama in Jeremiah Wrights church and I really can't fault the church there/
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:29 pm
by TPRJones
If a majority of the church members support it what right does the preacher/pastor/whatever have to say no? He doesn't own the church, the members do.
At least that's how it works for Methodists, which is the one I'm familiar with.
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:16 pm
by TheCatt
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:02 am
by Leisher
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:48 pm
by Vince
Not surprising with threats of violence from the tolerant against business owners.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:58 pm
by GORDON
No one hates like a leftie.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:59 pm
by Malcolm
Vince wrote:Not surprising with threats of violence from the tolerant against business owners.
You mean the other bizzes that threatened to pull out of the state over it? The Final Four dudes talking about pulling out? The bands that cancelled concerts? Yeah, damn them for wanting control over the states in which they hold events.
For fuck's sake, even Glenn Beck said the gov fucked up trying to explain and defend this.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:04 pm
by GORDON
I thought he meant that place that the owners answered a poll from a reporter, then got death threats over it and had to shut down.
When asked by local press the hypothetical question of whether or not they'd prefer to have their family owned business, Memories Pizza, cater a gay wedding, the owner said no citing their own religious beliefs as the reason.
Rather than allowing this family to simply have their opinion, which they were asked to give, outraged people grabbed the torches and began a campaign to destroy this small business in small town Indiana.
All for having an opinion that is rooted in faith.
No one was turned away. No one was discriminated against. It was a hypothetical question asked by a news reporter who had questionable motives to begin with.
Nice people are helping them get through it, though.
http://www.gofundme.com/MemoriesPizza
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:10 pm
by Vince
Even had a middle school coach calling for volunteers to go torch it. She's suspended.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:13 pm
by Vince
Malcolm wrote:For fuck's sake,
even Glenn Beck said the gov fucked up trying to explain and defend this.
LOL! Glenn doesn't think the law is bad. He thinks the gov did a piss poor job of defending it.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:21 pm
by TPRJones
Even had a middle school coach calling for volunteers to go torch it. She's suspended.
Good. She should be. That is indefensible.
People have just as much right to refuse to buy the pizza of someone they dislike for the opinions they expressed as those who expressed those opinions in the first place. It's a cost of free enterprise that sometimes when you piss off enough of your potential customers by shooting off your mouth with an unpopular opinion you might end up going out of business. Do I think everyone should be persecuted for their unpopular opinions? Of course not! But if you own and operate a business that serves the public you are no longer completely free as an individual to do as you please in public, not if you want to stay in business.
But calling for violence is way out of bounds.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:25 pm
by Malcolm
Vince wrote:Malcolm wrote:For fuck's sake,
even Glenn Beck said the gov fucked up trying to explain and defend this.
LOL! Glenn doesn't think the law is bad. He thinks the gov did a piss poor job of defending it.
Did I say he was against the law?
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:27 pm
by GORDON
TPRJones wrote:Even had a middle school coach calling for volunteers to go torch it. She's suspended.
Good. She should be. That is indefensible.
People have just as much right to refuse to buy the pizza of someone they dislike for the opinions they expressed as those who expressed those opinions in the first place. It's a cost of free enterprise that sometimes when you piss off enough of your potential customers by shooting off your mouth with an unpopular opinion you might end up going out of business. Do I think everyone should be persecuted for their unpopular opinions? Of course not! But if you own and operate a business that serves the public you are no longer completely free as an individual to do as you please in public, not if you want to stay in business.
But calling for violence is way out of bounds.
They're not going out of business because they claimed they didn't want gay money, they are going out of business because they are in hiding and afraid to show up at work. Pretty big difference.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:35 pm
by Vince
I remember the good ol' days when "tolerance" in it's simplest form boiled down to "you do your thing and I'll do mine".
The lost irony on this is the hate and intolerance is coming from the left. What I've been hearing from the Christians is "We have nothing against gay people. We love our gay customers. But our religious beliefs prevent us from participating in their weddings."
This is NOT about tolerance. That's the irony. Where's the tolerance for the religious freedoms? This is an assault on Christianity. Where's Apple's CEO on stopping sales in the middle east where gays are routinely legally executed? Where is his outspoken critique of radical Islam? He's a coward. He's going to pick on a target that won't hurt him. All of them do.
The Christians in this are showing character. Knowing beforehand how the media was going to react, they stood by their principles. Without anger and without hated.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:37 pm
by GORDON
I see some mother fucking Chic Fil A in my near future.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:37 pm
by Vince
GORDON wrote:They're not going out of business because they claimed they didn't want gay money, they are going out of business because they are in hiding and afraid to show up at work. Pretty big difference.
And they never said they didn't want homosexuals at their pizza joint. They said they didn't want to participate in a gay wedding. The owner said they'd serve pizza to gay customers all day long.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:38 pm
by Vince
GORDON wrote:I see some mother fucking Chic Fil A in my near future.
I was thinking the same.
And buying me some over priced China made crap at Hobby Lobby.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:42 pm
by Malcolm
We have nothing against gay people. We love our gay customers. But our religious beliefs prevent us from participating in their weddings."
Then they DO have something against the gay people. While they might love their gay customers, they're making them feel like they're second rate citizens because of their religious beliefs. That's not an issue I care about. When your beliefs translate into refusing service at your public biz because of them, I call bullshit. Dispensing pizza at a wedding, hypothetically or otherwise, is not tantamount to approving of the ceremony. You aren't the minister performing shit, you're not the organ player, you're not one of the suckers walking down the aisle, you're serving food. I'll point out again how I find it baffling they don't want to cater gay weddings, but weddings for straight couples who aren't virgins are totally cool, even though that shit gets relatively equal weight in the Bible and more than a couple branches of Christianity; mortal sin is mortal sin. I know the beliefs vary with the denomination, but it's fascinating why that one fucking rule is seized upon when hundreds, if not thousands of others, are ignored.
Edited By Malcolm on 1427996794
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:46 pm
by GORDON
Right, and if NAMBLA wants them to cater their banquet, then they will have no choice but to do it.