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Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:23 pm**

As stupid as it is, it is Anakin that brings balance to the force.

I would also agree and say it was Luke but it isn't.

Lucas has said that the prophecy is talking about Anakin and that Anakin is the chosen one.

Well, either you heard him wrong or he's wrong. Yes, I just said Lucas is wrong about his own story, and judging by how badly he fucked with continuity in Ep I-III, I feel safe saying it.

My proof:
-There are 6 movies. From EP I-III Vader did not bring balance to the force as stated by Obi Wan. EP IV saw Vader eliminate one of the last two Jedi, while there were still two Sith, so no balance. At the end of EP V Vader was still bad and was attempting to turn his son to the darkside. At the end of EP VI, Vader turns good, kills his master, and then dies. Considering Sith apprentices are expected to kill their masters, that's nothing new. Also, since his death was brought about by his son, his master, and in part, Obi Wan it cannot be argued that Vader brought balance to the force by eliminating the Sith.
-Lucas authorized the Timothy Zahn books which pick up after Jedi. Want proof? The planet where the clones were made, the species that did it, Janga Fett being the model for the clones, etc. all came from the Timothy Zahn books.
-Keeping that in mind, Zahn says in his books that Luke is the guy that brings balance. In fact, he even toys with a twist where it might not even be Luke who fulfills the prophecy.
-Luke is the only guy who can use dark and light Jedi powers. Name one other character that pulls off that stunt.
-Luke is so powerful after EP VI that Zahn has to use plot devices to keep him out of one on one battles with other Jedi and the Sith as he'd wipe the floor with everyone.
-Yes, there are still Sith after Ep VI, so Vader didn't eliminate them all by killing his master.

Thus, my question is: How did Vader bring balance to the force?

Maybe he creates the balance by knocking up Padme and helping to make the guy who actually does the work?

And while we're at it, answer this question: At the end of EP III when the Emporer and Yoda are fighting, the Emporer says that Vader will become more powerful than both of them. Well, that never happens. In fact, the Emporer tries to have Luke kill Vader at the end of Ep VI. That alone proves that Luke was more powerful than Vader

Actually, that scene makes all the Jedis and the Sith look like idiots. They all fought over this kid thinking he was some great powerful being when in fact it was his spawn that was the man. None of them saw that coming?

That point irked me at the end of Ep III. Yoda should have made a point of telling Obi Wan that the force was very strong with Luke and that he shouldn't attempt to train him alone and fail like he did with Anakin.

Lucas should have made Ep VII-IX instead of I-III since these films have exposed all of his weaknesses as a storyteller.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:30 pm**

And while we're at it, answer this question: At the end of EP III when the Emporer and Yoda are fighting, the Emporer says that Vader will become more powerful than both of them. Well, that never happens. In fact, the Emporer tries to have Luke kill Vader at the end of Ep VI. That alone proves that Luke was more powerful than Vader

What they didn't know, though, was that Obi Wan cut off Anakin's legs which drastically reduced his forcie-midichlorian count. Would also explain why Anakin fights like... a good martial-arts stunt double in Ep I-III, and then just kind of stands there and swings the sword when fighting decrepit Obi Wan in Ep IV.

That's prolly why it took Vader's offspring to finally make things happen.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:53 pm**

What they didn't know, though, was that Obi Wan cut off Anakin's legs which drastically reduced his forcie-midichlorian count.

A prophecy would have seen that coming. I mean isn't that the point?

When's the last time you saw a prophecy that said "Sometime in the future, a man will appear clad in black. He will be powerful and very wise. He will unite out people and return us to our home...unless he gets hit by a bus or something. Then we're fucked unless someone else steps up."

I think Lucas is a fuckwad who let his ego get the best of him. He wanted to make three more films and couldn't do Ep VII-IX because he knew there would be problems getting the actors. Thus, he did the first three and ruined his original trilogy in the process.

Also, if the story focuses on Vader, and Lucas has had this whole thing written out forever, then why didn't he start with Ep I? Why start on Ep IV?

I'll tell you why. There was no Ep I-III. He started at IV as a simple trick to get people hooked and to give the SW universe a backstory without giving it a backstory.

What a jackass.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:40 am**

Heh, good points.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:06 am**

Hayden Christianson is the worst actor ever.

No. Mark Hamill was worse. I've seen Hayden act in other films. Given dialog, he can not suck. Mark Hamill has sucked in everything he's ever been in. The only acting he does well is voice acting for cartoons and games. He does that very, VERY well. Have to give him props for that.

He should give Tarantino the three Timothy Zahn books and tell him to make the last three movies based on them.

Way pick an over rated hack like him to do it?

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:13 am**

Anakin wasn't the guy in the prophecy. Yoda implied that in Ep III.

If I recall, Yoda didn't imply that Anakin wasn't the guy in the prophecy, but a broader "we may have misinterpretted the prophecy", which slid right into the "our idea of balance and the prophecy's idea of balance may not be the same thing".

And Zahn's books are the ONLY SW books officially recognized by Lucas as continuing the SW series after Ep VI.

Heheh... I find it funny that you blame Lucas for screwing up continuity (which I don't disagree with) and then hold up Zahn's books as "the SW Bible" simply because they were officially recognized by the guy that screwed up the continuity. :laugh:

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:00 pm**

Well, either you heard him wrong or he's wrong. Yes, I just said Lucas is wrong about his own story, and judging by how badly he fucked with continuity in Ep I-III, I feel safe saying it.

I agree. Anakin being the choosen one it pretty lame. The only things lamer are Boba Fetts demise in Jedi and Anakin standing next to Yoda and Obi-Wan at the end of Jedi. The new ending is much better though but still not what I would like.

My proof:
-There are 6 movies. From EP I-III Vader did not bring balance to the force as stated by Obi Wan. EP IV saw Vader eliminate one of the last two Jedi, while there were still two Sith, so no balance. At the end of EP V Vader was still bad and was attempting to turn his son to the darkside. At the end of EP VI, Vader turns good, kills his master, and then dies. Considering Sith apprentices are expected to kill their masters, that's nothing new. Also, since his death was brought about by his son, his master, and in part, Obi Wan it cannot be argued that Vader brought balance to the force by eliminating the Sith.

Lucas statment is that Anakin destroyed the Sith. I think it was still Luke because if Luke had decided to just be a pussy then the Empire would have continued on because Vader wouldn't have turned. Also Balance is no sith and however many Jedi. Not sure where dark Jedi fit into that equation though.

-Lucas authorized the Timothy Zahn books which pick up after Jedi. Want proof? The planet where the clones were made, the species that did it, Janga Fett being the model for the clones, etc. all came from the Timothy Zahn books.

I don't know everything about Star Wars by a long shot but I think you are talking about a different group of Clones. The Clones you are refering too are the ones involved with the dark fleet I think and they are different from the Clone Trooper made by the Kaminos.

Also while Lucas authorizes people to write the books/comics and stories for the games they can be cancelled out whenever he wants and they contradicte each other too. RotS has thrown the whole history of the Death Star and Maw Installation into doubt as far as the books are concerned. I mentioned before the KOTOR I and II conflict with other books. As far as Lucasarts/films/etc are concerned the movies are the only "official" telling of the story.

-Keeping that in mind, Zahn says in his books that Luke is the guy that brings balance. In fact, he even toys with a twist where it might not even be Luke who fulfills the prophecy.

Like I said before I don't remember everything but I didn't think that there was any mention of the prophecy before it was mention in Phantom Menace.

-Luke is the only guy who can use dark and light Jedi powers. Name one other character that pulls off that stunt.

That isn't the balance that they are referring too though. Luke using dark side powers is making things unbalanced. I would disagree with this personally only because I would say Sidious, Vader, Maul, Tyrannus, Exar Kun, C'baoth, etc all could use lightside powers too.

-Yes, there are still Sith after Ep VI, so Vader didn't eliminate them all by killing his master.

Back to the whole books don't influence the movies thing. Also I don't remember there being any Sith after Jedi beside the resurected Emperor and again they don't matter to the movies they just get cancelled out.

Thus, my question is: How did Vader bring balance to the force?[/qoute]

If you are asking me he didn't. But Lucas says he brought balance by killing Sidious and then turning away from the dark side and sacrificing himself. So when he died there were no more Sith.

Maybe he creates the balance by knocking up Padme and helping to make the guy who actually does the work?

This is the closest I can see Anakin getting to bring balance to the force, but then I guess that means maybe his Anakins mother was the choosen one. Or Sidious or Plagious since I agree that one of them created Anakin.

And while we're at it, answer this question: At the end of EP III when the Emporer and Yoda are fighting, the Emporer says that Vader will become more powerful than both of them. Well, that never happens. In fact, the Emporer tries to have Luke kill Vader at the end of Ep VI. That alone proves that Luke was more powerful than Vader

I don't know if I would agree with this. Every Sith Master believes his student will become even more powerful and every Sith Master is always looking for a new student. The master is always going to believe that the student will become more powerful because the student has to kill the master. I don't think Sidious trying to get Luke to kill Vader was confiramtion that Luke was more powerful just Sidious looking out and trying to get the best student.

Actually, that scene makes all the Jedis and the Sith look like idiots. They all fought over this kid thinking he was some great powerful being when in fact it was his spawn that was the man. None of them saw that coming?

Ehhh. Luke definatly wasn't the most powerful one. He was getting his ass handed to him by Vader and if Vader hadn't turned Luke would have been dead. I think some of what makes Luke the chosen one is because he went and faced the two most powerful people in the universe one being his father no less with some pretty crappy training overall. His will to do what needed to be done and face incredible odds is what makes him the chosen one not his power in the force. That just my opinion though.

That point irked me at the end of Ep III. Yoda should have made a point of telling Obi Wan that the force was very strong with Luke and that he shouldn't attempt to train him alone and fail like he did with Anakin.

Yoda can't say that. Part of what makes the whole Luke/Obi-Wan relationship cool is that Luke is correcting the problems caused by his father and giving Obi-Wan the chance to correct past mistakes he feels responsible for.

Lucas should have made Ep VII-IX instead of I-III since these films have exposed all of his weaknesses as a storyteller.

I think the time period before A New Hope is much cooler then the time period after Jedi. I'm a fan of lightsabers so I like the comics and books with all the Jedis/Sith/Dark Jedi in them then the stuff showing Luke rebuild the Order. Again just my preference.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:06 pm**

A prophecy would have seen that coming. I mean isn't that the point?

No because the prophecy just says that balance would be brought to the force.

So while I don't agree with Anakin being the chosen one becasue I think it ruins Lukes character and Luke did the right things, I don't think the prophecy is wrong.

The Sith are destroyed and there is balance at the end of Jedi, that is what the prophecy said. The Jedi just didn't know that all hell was going to break loose and they were going to get taken out before it came to be.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:34 pm**

Prophecy? Bah.

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:02 pm**

No. Mark Hamill was worse. I've seen Hayden act in other films. Given dialog, he can not suck. Mark Hamill has sucked in everything he's ever been in. The only acting he does well is voice acting for cartoons and games. He does that very, VERY well. Have to give him props for that.

I honestly think Hamill was better than Hayden. Hamill was playing a naive coutry hick, so his bad acting actually worked fo the role. He does do excellent voicework though.

Way pick an over rated hack like him to do it?

Mainly because I don't think he's overrated. However, its also because he has a good understanding of samurai films and that's what SW is all about. As long as he avoiding cartoony fight scenes and stuck with ones like The Bride versus Daryl Hannah he'd do just fine. He obviously gets more out of his actors than Lucas.

but just so you know, I think Peter Jackson would be interesting.

If I recall, Yoda didn't imply that Anakin wasn't the guy in the prophecy, but a broader "we may have misinterpretted the prophecy", which slid right into the "our idea of balance and the prophecy's idea of balance may not be the same thing".

I believe his statement and facial expression were an implication that they fucked up with Anakin. Although, I must admit, I was a bit annoyed that nobody punished Obi Wan for continuing Anakin's training when the Council decided to not train him.

Heheh... I find it funny that you blame Lucas for screwing up continuity (which I don't disagree with) and then hold up Zahn's books as "the SW Bible" simply because they were officially recognized by the guy that screwed up the continuity.

Yeah, but that's the point. Lucas did screw up the continuity. Overall, was the story thrown off kilter? No, but I guarantee you that Ep IV - VI would be written differently today. The main reason being that the characters changed or their relationships changed.

Anyway, your statement there proves my point. Lucas does recognize Zahn's books as official and even included a lot of material from them in these new films. He's the one saying they're official and he's the one in charge of continuity overall, so the blame does lie with him and him only.

The only things lamer are Boba Fetts demise

Both Fett deaths disappointed me.

Lucas statment is that Anakin destroyed the Sith. I think it was still Luke because if Luke had decided to just be a pussy then the Empire would have continued on because Vader wouldn't have turned.

GREAT point. Debate that one Vince, if you think Lucas didn't fuck up.

Also Balance is no sith and however many Jedi. Not sure where dark Jedi fit into that equation though.

Another excellent point. No where in the series of films are Dark Jedi discussed. Only Sith. Does Lucas acknowledge Dark Jedi?

I don't know everything about Star Wars by a long shot but I think you are talking about a different group of Clones. The Clones you are refering too are the ones involved with the dark fleet I think and they are different from the Clone Trooper made by the Kaminos.

No, I remember Janga Fett being the template for the clones used in the Clone Wars. That idea was from the Zahn books and Lucas used it. He even used the description of the planet and its inhabitants.

Also while Lucas authorizes people to write the books/comics and stories for the games they can be cancelled out whenever he wants and they contradicte each other too. RotS has thrown the whole history of the Death Star and Maw Installation into doubt as far as the books are concerned. I mentioned before the KOTOR I and II conflict with other books. As far as Lucasarts/films/etc are concerned the movies are the only "official" telling of the story.

Now this is an interesting discussion point that could be a chain of its own. Lucas can't have it both ways. KotoR and the Zahn books are authorized works that Lucas says are official in the SW universe. He's gone so far as to use points/histories/characters from these works in his films giving them even more validity. If he is picking and choosing stuff and going back on his word, then that's even more proof the franchise should be taken out of his hands.

Oh, and as for the Death Star, and this is another point Vince can try to debate since he doesn't think Lucas fucked up, its appearance at the end of Ep III was stupid. I liked that it was mentioned previously as being in the planning stages, but if it was so far along, and obviously would be done soon, why'd it take 20+ years for the Emporer to use it. Hell, after he revealed himself to be Sith and took over the rmy, why'd it take so long for him to disolve the senate?

Like I said before I don't remember everything but I didn't think that there was any mention of the prophecy before it was mention in Phantom Menace.

More proof Lucas screwed things up, and more proof he didn't write Ep I-III previously as he said he had.

That isn't the balance that they are referring too though. Luke using dark side powers is making things unbalanced. I would disagree with this personally only because I would say Sidious, Vader, Maul, Tyrannus, Exar Kun, C'baoth, etc all could use lightside powers too.

Be careful, by giving examples from the KotoR series you allow for Zahn's words to be true: "Luke was the one who brought balance to the force. "

This is even more proof of how fucked the continuity of the SW universe has gotten. I actually respect the Trek guys even more now as I don't think their universe is so out of control.

Ehhh. Luke definatly wasn't the most powerful one. He was getting his ass handed to him by Vader and if Vader hadn't turned Luke would have been dead. I think some of what makes Luke the chosen one is because he went and faced the two most powerful people in the universe one being his father no less with some pretty crappy training overall. His will to do what needed to be done and face incredible odds is what makes him the chosen one not his power in the force. That just my opinion though.

Luke only got beat down when he refused to fight. Once he let loose he kicked Vader's ass in seconds. The only reason the Emporer got the best of him is because he didn't get training. Had he gotten the proper training he could have fought the bolts like Yoda did. Also, your point about Luke going in against overwhelming odds is a good point. By definition, he was truly a Jedi at that point. He negotiated until there was no other option and he kicked ass, then wound up negotiating again to save the day. (Think about it.)

Yoda can't say that. Part of what makes the whole Luke/Obi-Wan relationship cool is that Luke is correcting the problems caused by his father and giving Obi-Wan the chance to correct past mistakes he feels responsible for.

I can accept that explanation.

I think the time period before A New Hope is much cooler then the time period after Jedi. I'm a fan of lightsabers so I like the comics and books with all the Jedis/Sith/Dark Jedi in them then the stuff showing Luke rebuild the Order. Again just my preference.

Plenty of sabers after Jedi, not to mention possibly the coolest character in the SW universe in the form of Grand Admiral Thrawn. Remember, only in the films are there only one Sith Lord and his apprentice. And it could be easily argued that Lucas only has one because more would be too hard to keep track of.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:07 pm**

...not to mention possibly the coolest character in the SW universe in the form of Grand Admiral Thrawn.

If we were picking teams for kickball, I'd pick Thrawn for my team first.

He'd spend 5 minutes looking at your fingerpainting from kindergarten, and beat your team before the ball ever rolls.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:32 am**

Goddamnit, where's Ogre?

I was at my buddy's birthday party at some restaurant. Damned if most of the folks at the table weren't IT nerds. I spent an entire evening listening to arguments about Star Wars & anime.

I gave that bar such a fucking workout.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:12 am**

Goddamnit, where's Ogre?

I was at my buddy's birthday party at some restaurant. Damned if most of the folks at the table weren't IT nerds. I spent an entire evening listening to arguments about Star Wars & anime.

I gave that bar such a fucking workout.

All these guys, sitting around here, talking about the show. How do you explain this to your imaginary girlfriend?

I've got some spoilers. You want to hear a spoiler? Here's a spoiler. You will die alone!

Seriously, have you ever talked to a woman without having to give your credit card number?

TheCatt? Unbelievable! Look, among the nerds I found an actual girl here. Not too shabby around here, huh, honey... the male to female ratio, yeah? I mean you've got your veritable pick of the litter. You can choose from all kinds of guys who have no idea how to please you.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:46 pm**

You will die alone!

My bottle of vodka begs to differ.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:19 pm**

He does do excellent voicework though.

He was on Robot Chicken the other night. Doing the voice of a COBRA soldier. Funny suff.

I believe his statement and facial expression were an implication that they fucked up with Anakin. Although, I must admit, I was a bit annoyed that nobody punished Obi Wan for continuing Anakin's training when the Council decided to not train him.

I think this was one of the mistakes the council made, they wanted him trained but were also worried. The way it seems to me know is that Anakin still gets trained since they can't pass up the chance at the chosen one but they had a clear conscience because they said not to do it. If you watch Vol.3 of the Clone Wars cartoon it is suggested that Anakin be made a knight without going through the traditional trials. So are against it and so council members are like "What are we waiting for? He's the choosen one!". A having your cake and eating it too type thing.

Oh, and as for the Death Star, and this is another point Vince can try to debate since he doesn't think Lucas fucked up, its appearance at the end of Ep III was stupid. I liked that it was mentioned previously as being in the planning stages, but if it was so far along, and obviously would be done soon, why'd it take 20+ years for the Emporer to use it. Hell, after he revealed himself to be Sith and took over the rmy, why'd it take so long for him to disolve the senate?

I believe that the new cartoon and live action series will explain more of this but the story I remember is that while the structer itself was well on its way to being made the laser was a long process and wasn't finished as quickly. In the Jedi Academy series there is a tiny version of the Death Star that is just the frames and a weak laser and I remember the laser being a problem.

As for the continuity the only real problem I have is when Luke is leaving Dagobah and Obi-Wan says "That boy is our last hope." and Yoda tells him there is another. It just seems like Obi-Wan doesn't know about Leia or is just totally writing her off which is kind of sexiest. Maybe he doesn't think that there is enough time to train her properly, I don't know but that is the only thing that I have a real issue with.

Plenty of sabers after Jedi, not to mention possibly the coolest character in the SW universe in the form of Grand Admiral Thrawn. Remember, only in the films are there only one Sith Lord and his apprentice. And it could be easily argued that Lucas only has one because more would be too hard to keep track of.

True there were saber fights after Jedi but still the one on one stuff for the most part. Which is cool but I just like the Jedi Army stuff in the Prequal comics/films/books better. Thrawn is definatly a cool guy and I like him, I'm a bit partial to Admiral Daala myself but they both are cool since they don't fit the normal mold of an imperal.

I wouldn't be against the next films being after Jedi and I don't believe for a second that there won't be more films. It is just that most of the characters that I care about from the originals are dead. Vader, Tarkin, Jabba, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Sidious. I really like Chewie and R2 and Luke and Lando are cool but beyond them I don't really care to see/read about Han, Leia, Wedge, and the others.

The time period after Jedi is Luke rebuilding the Jedi and fighting the Imperial Warlords and while there are cool parts like Daala and Thrawn I don't think the overall setting is as cool a place as the Old Republic.

If any more films are going to be made I would rather a new director go farther back into the past before the Sith made the only a Master and Apprentice rule so there would be a Sith Army. Anything after Jedi I would want it to be far enough in the future that everyone is dead with the exceptions of very old Luke in a Yoda type position, Chewie, R2, and C-3PO tagging along and a lot less witty. Just my preference though

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:23 pm**

He does do excellent voicework though.
He was on Robot Chicken the other night. Doing the voice of a COBRA soldier. Funny suff.

That was HIM? Holy crap.

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:15 pm**

NERDS!

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:58 pm**

Mainly because I don't think he's overrated. However, its also because he has a good understanding of samurai films and that's what SW is all about. As long as he avoiding cartoony fight scenes and stuck with ones like The Bride versus Daryl Hannah he'd do just fine. He obviously gets more out of his actors than Lucas.

Don't get me wrong. Hack was too strong a word. He does some interesting stuff, but I think he's vastly over rated.

Lucas statment is that Anakin destroyed the Sith. I think it was still Luke because if Luke had decided to just be a pussy then the Empire would have continued on because Vader wouldn't have turned.

GREAT point. Debate that one Vince, if you think Lucas didn't fuck up.

Jesus... okay. I think Uncle Owen was the one in the prophecy. If he had been encouraging of the idea that Luke become a pilot instead of acting like he needed him so bad on the moisture farm, Luke would have left Tatooine long before ever meeting Obi-Wan. Or maybe it was Watto. If he hadn't agreed to put Ani up as a prize in the pod race then the Emporer would have continued on his merry way with no jedi fighting against him. And Luke would have never been born. If Yoda had gone with his better judgement and not trained Luke because he was too old and too angry then Luke would have never turned Vader back. Or if Obi-Wan hadn't convinced Yoda to train Luke...

I could play this game all day. The fact is, Vader was the one that killed Sidious. In doing so, he killed himself. Vader ended the reign of the Sith.

Oh, and as for the Death Star, and this is another point Vince can try to debate since he doesn't think Lucas fucked up, its appearance at the end of Ep III was stupid. I liked that it was mentioned previously as being in the planning stages, but if it was so far along, and obviously would be done soon, why'd it take 20+ years for the Emporer to use it.

I will admit that the level of the completion of the Death Star struck me. I would have preferred to have seen it less far along. I'd say that it didn't take 20+ years to use it. Luke was in his late teens when he left Tatooine (I thought). Two things might explain why it wasn't used for so long. Technical difficulties, or financial difficulties. I actually thought of financial difficulties after I saw it. Some of the systems would have been passive aggressive in their resistance towards the new Empire by withholding taxes. The Empire would probably have to respond by building a larger fleet in order to place garrisons around the planets that resist. Sure, he could have just finished the Death Star and and vaporized the planets in question, but a vaporized planet isn't providing taxes either.

Hell, after he revealed himself to be Sith and took over the rmy, why'd it take so long for him to disolve the senate?

The senate was impotent at this point. Why disolve them and cause greater unrest?

This is even more proof of how fucked the continuity of the SW universe has gotten. I actually respect the Trek guys even more now as I don't think their universe is so out of control.

I hope you're kidding here. I actually stopped watching ST:TNG because the continuity was so whacked. I remember the episode where they figured out how to teleport through their shields. Then the next season there was at least on episode where it was suddenly a problem again. I also recall someone (was it you, Gordo) that mentioned one of the big wars getting screwed up with their lack of continuiety (I'm wanting to say it was the Eugenics wars that Khan came from). Star Trek was much worse, which is probably why the relatively "small" inconsistancies in Star Wars didn't really bother me.

Luke only got beat down when he refused to fight. Once he let loose he kicked Vader's ass in seconds.

No, he only started to win when he gave in to his anger (the Dark Side) which was exactly what the Emporer was wanting. One thing that was consistant and well done was the Emporer's ability to hit Jedi's hot buttons and start them down the path of the dark side.

Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of inconsistancies. But none of them were deal breakers for me. One thing that I've learned from watching the many, many movies that I have... movies evolve. There is no way for a movie to end up on the screen the same way it was visualized initially. Some things just look too clunky after they film it and try to edit it.

Look at the Lord of The Rings. Jackson started with a complete written work and he still had to change it because it didn't translate well in some places directly to the screen. Now you take a series of movies that spanned 27 years to make, the later half of the story being told first, and it complications get much larger. I DO think Lucas had an overall idea of the story line before he started the latest trilogy. Did he have the scripts written? Probably not. And if he did, scripts go through so many rewrites we wouldn't have seen them anyway. Not the way they were written.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:19 pm**

...Technical difficulties, or financial difficulties. I actually thought of financial difficulties after I saw it. Some of the systems would have been passive aggressive in their resistance towards the new Empire by withholding taxes..,.,.,

We saw what happened behind the scenes, and only a handfull of peeps know what really happened... to the typical galactic citizen, the emperor just cleaned up all the corrupt malcontents with the victorious clone army. How much passive-aggression would there be, initially?

"What have the Romans ever done for us?"

"Well, they built the aquaducts..."

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:30 pm**

We saw what happened behind the scenes, and only a handfull of peeps know what really happened... to the typical galactic citizen, the emperor just cleaned up all the corrupt malcontents with the victorious clone army.

Ah, but he had just been victorious in a galactic civil war. The emperor was already starting with a large chunk of his empire not being too happy with him. And I would assume that The Trade Federation controlled quite a bit of financial resources.

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Episode III: Spoiler thread Mark II