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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:28 pm
by GORDON
My question is have you ever heard anyone say these things? No you just think it is so therefore it is.
I may be the first, but I'm not alone.
http://www.radioblogger.com/
The big lesson of September 11th, in fact, is in the end, the more the people are self-reliant, and take control for themselves, the more they're likely to be able to withstand these things. If you entrust yourself to the government, then you will be vulnerable. The people who had reviled SUV's, that the environmental[ists] want to get rid of and want to ban, they were able to drive away from the city. The people who were dependent on public transit, and did what the government [said], and went into this appalling situation in the Superdome, they're the ones that have been failed by their governments.
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:17 am
by Vince
So what's the fix?
How do you get people who make excuses not to work, to work?
Some of them never will, but one of the things I've always been in favor of is reversing what we have between the tax system and the welfare system.
We have a scaling tax rate based on what you make, and an (almost) all or nothing welfare state. I think this was intentional at some level, because people that no longer need welfare have no reason to vote for those that get them their checks.
Give these people an incentive to do better for themselves. Don't have an arbitrary cut-off point where they no longer receive assistance. Make it a sliding scale where where they only lose 1 cent of assistance for every 2 cents they make in income in such a way that they're off the system a bit above the poverty level. That way when they start doing better for themselves, they are actually doing better for themselves. Nothing drives the desire to get bigger better things (thus, work) than the experience of getting bigger better things.
Don't penalize mothers for marrying and living with the father of their children. Make a condition of getting assistance one of those three month birth control shots. If they have one for men, make them get it too.
I honestly don't know how much this would fix, but I think the first step needs to be to fix the system that keeps them dysfunctional. Give that about 10 years and see what you end up with.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:43 pm
by MommaBear
We all hate to see people suck off of the system. The welfare system was designed to be a hand UP, not a hand OUT, a temporary safety net to assist people in getting on their feet again.
And you guys, all of you, make excellent points of those that think it's fine to bring up generations of uneducated, unmotivated, directionless people. To create a life you can be proud of is what we all strive for. That's what we were taught. However, if living on foodstamps and in squallor and implementing other money-sucking ways to being a constant burden to your state, city and local community is what these people think their life will ever be, then it will be. I can pity them for their ignorance and in the same breath curse those that demonstrated to them every day from an early age that was THE road to a meaningful life.
Edited By MommaBear on 1125866679
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:21 am
by mbilderback
So what's the fix?
How do you get people who make excuses not to work, to work?
I want to take a stab at this question. And I realize my answer sounds cold, but there is really no other way.
In short, the way to motivate unmotivatable people is starvation. STOP GIVING THEM MONEY. As long as there are jobs out there to get, people can eat. I know for a fact that just about every fast-food chain around here needs workers on a constant basis. Wal-Mart is always hiring staff. I don't care if you don't /want/ to flip-burgers for a living, do it or starve.
Now, I understand all too well that there is no way the government could implement such things without bloodshed, so here's a stopgap.
As V said above, scale welfare so that working will ALWAYS benefit you. And, if you receive a nickel of welfare money, you must be on birth control. And, before you say it, it will not be too expensive. It is far cheaper to prevent the pregnancy than to pay for the baby after the fact.
Medical care: It should always cost money to go to the doctor. I don't care if you have no job and live completely off of welfare. It could easily cost me up to 1/10th of my yearly income if I fell ill, even with health coverage. Why should some dredge of society get the same treatment for free? You should have to pay for all your medical expenses up to 1/10th of your yearly income while on welfare. After that, talk to an insurance company.
Housing: No free housing. Again, take the average house note for a middle class person and apply that percentage to their income. I figure that housing costs me about 1/6th of my yearly income. This is house payments alone, it does not include utilities or repairs/improvements. This means that no one on welfare should pay less than 1/6th of their income on a home.
Yes, I realize that this leaves VERY little liquid income for welfare recipients, and personally, I think that's good.
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:13 pm
by GORDON
My question is have you ever heard anyone say these things? No you just think it is so therefore it is.
I think it, therefore it must be true...
http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/printerFriendly.php?id=1026&PHPSESSID=211336cb5a4189d83f46e65529e087d5
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:46 pm
by GORDON
I think it up, and everyone falls in line behind me.
Too bad I don't have enough charisma to actually take over the world.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/le20050908.shtml
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:34 pm
by TPRJones
The problem is that these ideas go COMPLETELY against the entire basis of liberalism and politically correct agendas. It's a complete denial of everything guilt-ridden power-hungry rich white people have worked for since they put down the bongs after the 60's and became responsible adults.
There is no way any of them will even consider this as a possible truth. They just can't. To them, as long as they hold those adle-brained ideals, it can be nothing more than the dark mutterings of racist facism.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:03 pm
by pleshette
Hopeless? No these people are not hopeless. I agree with almost everything you are saying but they are not hopeless. With the exception of losing everything in a flood, I worked my way out of homelessness and welfare. Some of the people I know are still impoverished are full of hope but for the wrong things.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:21 pm
by GORDON
I heard on the news that the government was giving out $2000 "debit cards" to each of the superdome refugees.
It's like nobody even needs to buy insurance from private companies, any more. There will be a lot more where that came from when people start submitting actual claims to FEMA.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:25 pm
by Mommy Dearest
I heard on the news that the government was giving out $2000 "debit cards" to each of the superdome refugees.
It's like nobody even needs to buy insurance from private companies, any more. There will be a lot more where that came from when people start submitting actual claims to FEMA.
These people are not refugees.
ref·u·gee (rfy-j) KEY
NOUN:
One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:27 pm
by GORDON
Stop nitpicking, you and I both know what I meant.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:33 pm
by DoctorChaos
I heard on the news that the government was giving out $2000 "debit cards" to each of the superdome refugees.
It's like nobody even needs to buy insurance from private companies, any more. There will be a lot more where that came from when people start submitting actual claims to FEMA.
And in other news, Walmart recorded record sales.
Gimme a fuckin' break. I feel bad for these people too but stop throwing them money. Throw them a lifeline. Maybe a meal, some clean bathroom facilities, a shower, and an appointment with a career placement consultant.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:35 pm
by GORDON
If my house burns down tomorrow, and I lose everything I own, can I get a $2000 debit card, too?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:31 pm
by pleshette
http://www.thenewmexicochannel.com/news/4946779/detail.html
This article gave me a different perspective on the plight of the flood citizens
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:15 pm
by TheCatt
If my house burns down tomorrow, and I lose everything I own, can I get a $2000 debit card, too?
MD, we all know they are feeling the situation created by Bush's poltiics.
Dont deny it.
Oh wait, I meant to say:
My house burned down 6 years ago, where the f is my $2000?
Edited By TheCatt on 1126296930
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:18 pm
by Mommy Dearest
If my house burns down tomorrow, and I lose everything I own, can I get a $2000 debit card, too?
If Jacksonville burned down and you could not get out or get to your bank and had no food or water, I would think they would give you something too.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:24 pm
by Malcolm
Why the hell don't we just give a 2K debit card to every homeless dude on a street corner?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:27 pm
by TPRJones
Nah, he's white.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:33 pm
by GORDON
If my house burns down tomorrow, and I lose everything I own, can I get a $2000 debit card, too?
If Jacksonville burned down and you could not get out or get to your bank and had no food or water, I would think they would give you something too.
So the deciding factor is what?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:40 pm
by Mommy Dearest
If my house burns down tomorrow, and I lose everything I own, can I get a $2000 debit card, too?
If Jacksonville burned down and you could not get out or get to your bank and had no food or water, I would think they would give you something too.
So the deciding factor is what?
need