Making something illegal won't stop it. That goes back to Able and Cain. But making something illegal allows us to punish those that do it and get them out of society where they have to potential to hurt others (depending on the person and the offense).
Again, I have no problem with legalized drugs right after we fix the broke ass welfare system and stop the socialist slide we've been on for the last 100 some-odd years.
The Slender Man Stabbing
Fair enough, I hadn't considered the illegal-only-for-punishment angle. Although I do have to say it doesn't seem to actually be doing much good on the whole.
As to your reasoning about not making it legal until welfare is gone, that I don't get. People who want to use and are on welfare are already using. Legalizing isn't going to have any effect on the poor at all except that fewer of them will end up being criminals and thus might have some sort of future. The people that wait until it's legal before they start using are almost universally middle-class and up.
Edited By TPRJones on 1402927047
As to your reasoning about not making it legal until welfare is gone, that I don't get. People who want to use and are on welfare are already using. Legalizing isn't going to have any effect on the poor at all except that fewer of them will end up being criminals and thus might have some sort of future. The people that wait until it's legal before they start using are almost universally middle-class and up.
Edited By TPRJones on 1402927047
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
I call horse shit on that. If you're talking dealers, they aren't going to suddenly decide to become accountants if they legalize drugs. And if you're talking users, then if they were not a functional addict before it's legalized, then they won't be one afterwards.TPRJones wrote: Legalizing isn't going to have any effect on the poor at all except that fewer of them will end up being criminals and thus might have some sort of future.
And I don't want welfare gone, I want it reformed.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
If you're talking dealers ... And if you're talking users ...
Neither. You were indicating that it shouldn't be legal while welfare exists, which I thought meant you figured that more welfare people would use it if it were more available. And I'm saying I disagree with that if that is what you meant, I think on the whole the poor people that want to use drugs already are. So when I said that it wouldn't effect the poor to legalize it I mean I don't think that those that are NOT dealers or users are not more likely to become so after legalization.
As to dealers they'll just be out of a job because you can't sell pot for $80 a bag if people can buy it for $5 at the corner store. They'll have to find something else to do.
EDIT: If I had to guess, some of those dealers would probably start mugging and stealing and whatnot. But the potential uptick in such crimes would probably be roughly offset by their users no longer having to do the same to pay for the drugs.
Edited By TPRJones on 1403011115
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Eh... I don't think many more people would be on drugs if it were legal, but I think we'd have more full blown addicts that don't even try to have a functional life. Same as happens with alcoholics now.TPRJones wrote:You were indicating that it shouldn't be legal while welfare exists, which I thought meant you figured that more welfare people would use it if it were more available. And I'm saying I disagree with that if that is what you meant, I think on the whole the poor people that want to use drugs already are.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Fair enough. Although those extreme ones would have an easier time trying to cope with it and those that did want help wouldn't have to be afraid of getting thrown in jail while trying to get help. So I think overall that would be mostly a wash, with an increase in quantity but a decrease in overall max life-shititude.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
As to dealers they'll just be out of a job because you can't sell pot for $80 a bag if people can buy it for $5 at the corner store. They'll have to find something else to do.
Colorado tried that and has made the mistake of taxing the everloving fuck out of their product such that they're almost keeping parity with the street pushers.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Although, if you are worried about those people just becoming druggies on welfare, how about making no drugs and no alcohol - and doing tests to verify that - as a condition of getting welfare? Would that solve the problem for you?
All because it's legal doesn't mean you have to let people doing it have welfare checks.
Edited By TPRJones on 1403018929
All because it's legal doesn't mean you have to let people doing it have welfare checks.
Edited By TPRJones on 1403018929
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Personally, I am for this idea. It creates the problem of people w/kids on the streets, so there needs to be a system in place to rescue the innocents, and the only way it would be effective is if it is harsh.TPRJones wrote:Although, if you are worried about those people just becoming druggies on welfare, how about making no drugs and no alcohol - and doing tests to verify that - as a condition of getting welfare? Would that solve the problem for you?
All because it's legal doesn't mean you have to let people doing it have welfare checks.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
I don't mind some draconian shit... remove children with a chance to see them again if they stay clean for X amount of time, sterilization, constant monitoring. As long as everybody knows the penalties up front for being on welfare and abusing drugs, it's harsh but fair, which is a better deal then you usually get out of life.
No more of this "minor expectations of showing basic competence and intelligence is racist" shit, either. If you can't figure out how to get a free ID from the government, then no, you aren't intelligent enough to be allowed to vote on issues that affect your neighbors.
No more of this "minor expectations of showing basic competence and intelligence is racist" shit, either. If you can't figure out how to get a free ID from the government, then no, you aren't intelligent enough to be allowed to vote on issues that affect your neighbors.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
I'd be "A" okay with that.TPRJones wrote:Although, if you are worried about those people just becoming druggies on welfare, how about making no drugs and no alcohol - and doing tests to verify that - as a condition of getting welfare? Would that solve the problem for you?
All because it's legal doesn't mean you have to let people doing it have welfare checks.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Mental incompetence works.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Only for one of them, though.Malcolm wrote:Mental incompetence works.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
What the hell?
Really? You think these two need to be tried as fully in charge of their own emotions and mentally competent at the time adults?A Wisconsin state appeals court ruled Wednesday that two girls accused of trying to kill their classmate in an attempt to please the fictional horror character Slender Man should be tried as adults.
Investigators say the girls, who were 12 at the time of the attack in 2014, plotted for months before luring their classmate into some woods after a birthday sleepover and repeatedly stabbing her.
What. The. Fuck.Anyone 10 or older charged with first-degree attempted homicide is automatically considered an adult under Wisconsin law.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
I consider myself to have very little empathy for criminals, and even I say WTF? to that... they're kids.
However, I do feel those girls would need the kind of reprogramming to help them deal with their future guilt to an extent I don't think anyone is willing to consider, so yeah.
However, I do feel those girls would need the kind of reprogramming to help them deal with their future guilt to an extent I don't think anyone is willing to consider, so yeah.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
I don't think standard jail is going to provide that. Can you think of anyone spending their lives in prison from age fourteen to thirty or forty and coming out anything less than dangerous?However, I do feel those girls would need the kind of reprogramming to help them deal with their future guilt to an extent I don't think anyone is willing to consider, so yeah.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
Exactly. I don't think The State is willing to do what would need to be done with them, to get them to a state close enough to "fixed" to ever function as humans. I think The State has neither the imagination nor the fortitude. Those girls are lost, and I don't know what is realistically best for them at this point.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
to get them to a state close enough to "fixed" to ever function as humans.
They appear to function at a rudimentary level, albeit with very fucked up intentions. I don't think it takes much to knock a "sane" person off their rocker and snap their brains like a dry reed. One of them seems to be schizo. The other ...According to a criminal complaint, the girls plotted for months before they lured Payton Leutner into a park in Waukesha, about 20 miles west of Milwaukee, and attacked her with a knife.
Shit, looks like I qualify.The fifth edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines diagnostic criteria of oppositional defiant disorder:
A. A pattern of angry/irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least 6 months as evidenced by at least four symptoms from any of the following categories, and exhibited during interaction with at least one individual who is not a sibling.
Angry/Irritable Mood
1. Often loses temper.
2. Is often touchy or easily annoyed.
3. Is often angry and resentful.
Argumentative/Defiant Behavior
4. Often argues with authority figures or for children and adolescents with adults.
5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules.
6. Often deliberately annoys others.
7. Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior.
Vindictiveness
8. Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Re: The Slender Man Stabbing
Probably just have to take them out and tell them to look at the pretty flowers, while Carol stands behind them with a gun.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."