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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:02 am
by TheCatt
Well, mainly cuz right now we can't hire more people, but I can spend more money on software. And Ghost is only $25/machine.
Admittedly, I was doing a few other things while building the machine, but that was a completely naked machine (as all of the ones we are receiving will be). I had to do the entire OS, patches, more patches, more patches, .NET Framework installs, drivers, Office, other apps, etc.
Maybe you have a base (and up to date) XP install already on the machines when you do yours. We've got bare hardware with nothing on them (They company we're being spin off from owns all licenses, so they nuke the drives before handing them over)
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:30 am
by Leisher
Well, mainly cuz right now we can't hire more people, but I can spend more money on software. And Ghost is only $25/machine.
$25 a machine isn't bad. It all comes down to preference though, so don't let us or anyone else tell you how to build machines. We can just give advice. Personally, I would've done them all myself, but if Ghost works for you, then giggity.
Admittedly, I was doing a few other things while building the machine, but that was a completely naked machine (as all of the ones we are receiving will be). I had to do the entire OS, patches, more patches, more patches, .NET Framework installs, drivers, Office, other apps, etc.
Maybe you have a base (and up to date) XP install already on the machines when you do yours. We've got bare hardware with nothing on them (They company we're being spin off from owns all licenses, so they nuke the drives before handing them over)
Nope, no base. All our laptops, desktops, and servers come without OSs.
The speed just comes with experience. If you sat down to do those 25 in a row, I think you'd find that towards the end you'd be doing a full install within a few hours.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:12 am
by TPRJones
So, "a few hours" each (say, 3?) x 25 laptops = over 9 8-hour days
versus 1.5 days + 30 minutes + (10 minutes x 25 laptops) = 2 8-hour days
So far it sounds like The Catt's got the right idea.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:10 am
by Leisher
So, "a few hours" each (say, 3?) x 25 laptops = over 9 8-hour days
versus 1.5 days + 30 minutes + (10 minutes x 25 laptops) = 2 8-hour days
So far it sounds like The Catt's got the right idea.
Did you read the rest of the chain? There's more than just time in this equation. So far, he's having a good experience with the drivers and such, but what happens if a driver isn't just found by the program, or worse, accepted even though it's not a good driver for the hardware installed? What happens if he has a PC from a different manufacturer? What happens if the drivers seem to load fine, but start acting up once the PC goes into service? Etc...
Ghosting is a great tool, nobody is disputing that. However, it's more for time management than for an every day PC builder. It's great for huge roll outs of PCs, but as an every day PC builder...not so much.
There is a trade off for that speed. Why do you think there's so few ghosting programs available and why so many organizations don't ghost?
I've only known two IT people in my career who used ghosting and they were constantly remaking those images because the organization had a shitload of different PCs by various manufacturers and in different models. They filled one of our servers with various images and they couldn't even keep straight what went with what. I didn't have a ton of respect for either one of them. (Not because of the ghosting alone, but because of their overall performance.)
Oh, and your math's off or you're not reading. I have 8 ports available on my workbench, so I can build 8 at a time. However, if I wanted to get cute about it, I could build all 25 at once. Outside of the network possibly being bogged down during the download phase, any IT person with a bit of experience could build all 25 in a single workday.
Again, it's all about what steps you're willing to take or skip combined with your preference.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:29 am
by TheCatt
I can build 25 in one hour with ghost 
At any rate... I understand Leisher's concerns, we're going to do what we can to minimize the variations of machines, but some things will be out of our control.
So far, I'm a fan. I'll be doing 7 more machines later this week, and then building a new image for 4 workstations, so we'll see how those go too.
It appears to have some pretty cool features about image editing/updating, etc without blowing away data, so I need to learn more about that as well.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:57 pm
by TPRJones
Leisher wrote:Did you read the rest of the chain?
Yeah, I just like to boil things down to the point of absurdity. :p
You can add another one to the ghosting list. That's the method we use here, with three campuses and 1300 employees worth of computers (not to mention the classrooms and open labs full of systems).
But, yeah, I can see the problems with that method. It takes them quite awhile to get the kinks sorted out whenever they go through that process, and I've enjoyed hearing all about it.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:22 pm
by Leisher
You can add another one to the ghosting list. That's the method we use here, with three campuses and 1300 employees worth of computers (not to mention the classrooms and open labs full of systems).
But, yeah, I can see the problems with that method. It takes them quite awhile to get the kinks sorted out whenever they go through that process, and I've enjoyed hearing all about it.
How many do they replace each year? Do they do it in one shot or over the course of the year? I'd be curious as to why they use ghost too.
As you state, my main problem with ghosting has to do with the eventual issues that one MIGHT discover. Nothing beats a cleanly installed system and if you do each one by hand, you're going to see any issues immediately. If you do them by ghost, issues won't be discovered until later and could cost you a lot more man hours than it would've if you'd just built it by hand.
Not saying things don't go wrong by hand. If you're doing multiple ones at a time, you've got to keep track of where you are with each one as my assistant recently learned. He forgot to install the VPN software onto a laptop and sent it out. Easily fixed, but shouldn't have happened. Still, it was good experience for him that he wouldn't have seen by ghosting.
Guess I'm just a hands on guy. I'd rather fuck my wife than buy her a sex toy. 
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:05 pm
by TheCatt
I'd rather let my systems build themselves, so that I have time to fuck my wife and her sex toy.
Uh....
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:08 pm
by TPRJones
Typically it'll be one at a time, or in larger batches if there's a new classroom coming online or a department upgrades computers. They'll come through with a boot floppy for each hardware set, pop in the floppy and restart to boot from it, and it'll run a batch file across the network that does a fresh ghosting. Once the batch file is off and running (less than a minute), pull the floppy and go to the next machine.
They'll randomly test a machine here and there, but otherwise they typically don't follow up much unless there are specific complaints. Of which there are usually many.
It's not ideal, but when you've only got two or three guys in an IT department of 30 that know what they are doing, quality manpower is a serious problem.
Edited By TPRJones on 1185307751
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:04 pm
by GORDON
TheCatt wrote:I'd rather let my systems build themselves, so that I have time to fuck my wife and her sex toy.
Uh....
Has it been 6 weeks already?
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:30 pm
by Cakedaddy
Ghosting/imaging is good when quantity counts more than quality. I'm more of a perfectionist and wouldn't want to use a PC that's got more drivers than it needs (even if they aren't being used, as in, multiple video card drivers for cards the machine doesn't have). I don't run my machine with the drivers windows installs, I download the most current from the part manufacturer. Stuff like that. What's the point of buying a high end machine just to have it run 'good enough'. Unless of course, it's not yours and you have 24 more to build.
I think I stated earlier that windows will auto detect variations between the image and the actual machine. I just never liked running the machines like that.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:05 pm
by TheCatt
GORDON wrote:TheCatt wrote:I'd rather let my systems build themselves, so that I have time to fuck my wife and her sex toy.
Uh....
Has it been 6 weeks already?
4 months.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:09 pm
by GORDON
Well in that case me too.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:17 pm
by TheCatt
Cakedaddy wrote:Ghosting/imaging is good when quantity counts more than quality. I'm more of a perfectionist and wouldn't want to use a PC that's got more drivers than it needs (even if they aren't being used, as in, multiple video card drivers for cards the machine doesn't have). I don't run my machine with the drivers windows installs, I download the most current from the part manufacturer. Stuff like that. What's the point of buying a high end machine just to have it run 'good enough'. Unless of course, it's not yours and you have 24 more to build.
I think I stated earlier that windows will auto detect variations between the image and the actual machine. I just never liked running the machines like that.
No reason, imho, that a business desktop couldn't do as well with the Windows auto-installed graphics driver than one from the mfr's website.
I would build my own by hand, but there's no reason to do that for the 40 PCs we've got at work.
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:00 am
by TheCatt
Ghost Timings:
Boot target machine & prep server to send: 2 minutes
Transmit time: 10 minutes
Post-image config (assign name, join network, login, check configuration, etc): 8 minutes
So deploying an image takes 10 minutes of actual work, and I don't have to worry about missed applications.
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:12 pm
by Paul
TheCatt wrote:Ghost Timings:
Boot target machine & prep server to send: 2 minutes
Transmit time: 10 minutes
Post-image config (assign name, join network, login, check configuration, etc): 8 minutes
So deploying an image takes 10 minutes of actual work, and I don't have to worry about missed applications.
Bah! What do you need all that extra time for?
Nailing your wife and her sex toy has only taken me three minutes max.
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:34 pm
by Malcolm
Paul wrote:Nailing your wife and her sex toy has only taken me three minutes max.
You nailed her sex toy?
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:22 pm
by TheCatt
Malcolm wrote:Paul wrote:Nailing your wife and her sex toy has only taken me three minutes max.
You nailed her sex toy?
Bah, I was first.
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:27 am
by Paul
TheCatt wrote:Malcolm wrote:
You nailed her sex toy?
Bah, I was first.
You mean nothing to that sex toy!
I rocked its world!