Vince wrote:Could you sub contract the homosexual wedding business out to someone that didn't have religious objections to it?
Absolutely! But that wouldn't have solved the problem for this woman because she'd still be associated with the gay wedding and thus have their sinful stink upon her.
Ultimately what she is in my opinion isn't so much a bigot (although there's some of that in there) but just bad at business. Gay weddings in Washington are going to be a booming industry for awhile. To pass that up is just bad for business.
I saw a preacher in KS had my idea of bakeries and photographers contracting exclusively with churches that don't perform gay marriage ceremonies.
Technically this could also work, but they'd have to be sure not to take any contracts outside those set deals, not just pass on the gay ones.
You are free to discriminate only as long as you do it to everyone equally.
Edited By TPRJones on 1428363603
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Everyone could simply do the right thing and boycott all marriage.
Edited By Malcolm on 1428369721
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Yeah, I'd seen that before. I like Penn, but until not too long ago he'd had a history of being outright hostile to Christians. And I don't know the value of going to an avowed atheist to see what he thinks Christians feel about it.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Vince wrote:Yeah, I'd seen that before. I like Penn, but until not too long ago he'd had a history of being outright hostile to Christians. And I don't know the value of going to an avowed atheist to see what he thinks Christians feel about it.
The fundamental issue here is that people have to be treated equally. It's not a question of what Christians, or Muslims, or whoevers feel. Otherwise we open up to an endless raft of "Well, my religion hates [black/white/yellow/brown/red] people," "My religion hates [women/men]," "My religion prevents me from serving mixed race couples," etc. It's never-ending. Individuals have the right to practice their religion as they see fit, to the extent it does not violate other people's rights or infringe upon their liberties.
Yeah, except show me the examples of those churches today that teach that about the religions that hate blacks or mixed marriages etc. Plus, the things you cite are explicitly protected classes within the Constitutions or its Amendments.
Here is why at least in the short term I think the anti Christian groups are going to lose. It's the same reason the anti 2nd Amendment groups lose and it's the same reason the goFundMe page made almost a million dollars and the counter pages haven't made a 10th of that... there's no passion behind the stance. Not from the majority of the supporters. There are no principles driving it. A big chunk of the supporters are mindlessly listening to the news and watching the Daily Show and saying, "Yeah! Those stoopid Jesus lovers!"
But when it comes to actually sacrifice for their beliefs, they pause. When it comes time to vote, the Christians won't say, "Well, I don't agree with them on forcing Christians to go against their held beliefs, but he's good on other stuff". The straight, pro-gay marriage guy WILL weigh that stance against his other interests.
I am so opposed to the fascist tactics that have been employed by the left on this that I'm using Opera as my web browser. And if not for Opera, I'd still be using IE. MOST of the support for the Tides Foundation on this is squishy. If you threatened to take away their Facebook or Netflix they'd fold in a heartbeat.
This is why in the end they'll lose.
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Vince wrote:Also one of the best reasoned defenses of them I've seen to date.
“My girlfriend and I are small business owners, and we think there is a difference between operating in a public market space and then attaching the name of your business to a private event,” she said. “Like, if we were asked to set up at an anti-gay marriage rally, I mean, we would have to decline.”
Most of the places it's legal to discriminate against gays, it's totally cool to do it to women and Christians, too. Wonderful company we're keeping.
Just because there aren't religions that have a problem with straight marriage doesn't change shit.
Edited By Malcolm on 1428414766
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince wrote:Also one of the best reasoned defenses of them I've seen to date.
“My girlfriend and I are small business owners, and we think there is a difference between operating in a public market space and then attaching the name of your business to a private event,” she said. “Like, if we were asked to set up at an anti-gay marriage rally, I mean, we would have to decline.”
I already pointed out how her analogy wasn't accurate. I assume she's getting flamed, but probably not for that.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince wrote:Yeah, I'd seen that before. I like Penn, but until not too long ago he'd had a history of being outright hostile to Christians. And I don't know the value of going to an avowed atheist to see what he thinks Christians feel about it.
The fundamental issue here is that people have to be treated equally.
People are being treated equally. Every place with this issue, Chic Fil A, Hobby Lobby, the pizza place, and the bakery, have all said they have no problem doing business with gay people, they just don't want to take part in their customs and practices.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Vince wrote:Yeah, I'd seen that before. I like Penn, but until not too long ago he'd had a history of being outright hostile to Christians. And I don't know the value of going to an avowed atheist to see what he thinks Christians feel about it.
The fundamental issue here is that people have to be treated equally.
People are being treated equally. Every place with this issue, Chic Fil A, Hobby Lobby, the pizza place, and the bakery, have all said they have no problem doing business with gay people, they just donon't want to take part in their customs and practices.
Customs and practices? Of getting married and having a family? Or the ones about sex?
Saying you have no issues with gays but their "lifestyle" is insane.
I like my dog, except for how he wags his tail and walks on four legs. I like my car, except for how it has wheels and rolls. I like heteros, except when they fuck the opposite gender. You have a problem with one of the core things that makes them who they are. Whether that comes from you or your god is moot, although God's a convenient cover story.
Edited By Malcolm on 1428416858
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON wrote:People are being treated equally. Every place with this issue, Chic Fil A, Hobby Lobby, the pizza place, and the bakery, have all said they have no problem doing business with gay people, they just don't want to take part in their customs and practices.
If you will cater a hetero wedding, but not a gay wedding, people are not being treated equally.
Yeah, customs and practices. Marriage isn't something that even everyone in America does, much less all heteros, much less everywhere in the world. Who you want to stick your dick in isn't really related to a wedding ceremony.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
GORDON wrote:People are being treated equally. Every place with this issue, Chic Fil A, Hobby Lobby, the pizza place, and the bakery, have all said they have no problem doing business with gay people, they just don't want to take part in their customs and practices.
If you will cater a hetero wedding, but not a gay wedding, people are not being treated equally.
These are private events. If you cater gay weddings but not Scientology events, can you be sued for religious discrimination?
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
GORDON wrote:Yeah, customs and practices. Marriage isn't something that even everyone in America does, much less all heteros, much less everywhere in the world. Who you want to stick your dick in isn't really related to a wedding ceremony.
Let's see how understanding straight people are when someone won't deliver an ice sculpture to their shit. Oh yeah, every woman I've met would lose their fucking mind. "Sure you can have that flower arrangement. Wait, you're straight? Nope, not in good conscience."
Edited By Malcolm on 1428417267
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON wrote:Yeah, customs and practices. Marriage isn't something that even everyone in America does, much less all heteros, much less everywhere in the world. Who you want to stick your dick in isn't really related to a wedding ceremony.
Awesome. I see the religions having lots of prohibitions on homo fucking, but nothing against marriage. Problem solved. "One man shall not lay with another..." Nothing about living under the same roof in a legal union.
Edited By Malcolm on 1428417601
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON wrote:People are being treated equally. Every place with this issue, Chic Fil A, Hobby Lobby, the pizza place, and the bakery, have all said they have no problem doing business with gay people, they just don't want to take part in their customs and practices.
If you will cater a hetero wedding, but not a gay wedding, people are not being treated equally.
These are private events. If you cater gay weddings but not Scientology events, can you be sued for religious discrimination?
Again, an organization that's been in court and ordered to pay millions to plaintiffs. They have a rep, a very public one. Has the gay couple robbed a bank or done anything criminal?
Plus, the things you cite are explicitly protected classes within the Constitutions or its Amendments.
Not in the context of a biz, which is what Indiana is trying to claim.
Edited By Malcolm on 1428418338
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON wrote:I don't even know what the argument is any more. People should be forced to do shit they don't want to do, got it.
The issue is whether or not someone can L. Ron Hubbard up a religion to fit whatever prejudice they want without adhering some base standard set by law in a place of biz.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
