The Republican Party

Post by **Leisher** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:40 pm

Japan's cultish devotion to tradition go hand in hand with its education system. It's starting to show some cracks after a couple thousand years. We can't emulate that system without that culture. We aren't them geographically or politically, either.

ou're suggesting the current educational standards are nothing but elegant, simple, sublime successes? This ain't a wheel; it's a bloated Rube Goldberg machine spinning into the void.

My point is that there are other countries doing much better than we are, so why are we trying to create something from scratch instead of adapting some of what they're doing?

They've done their job. They've proven they suck at teaching. Consider it motivation for your kid to start learning things on his own instead of waiting for someone else to explain it. Figuring out at an early age that school is bullshit is a very important lesson.

What? It's good that his teachers have failed him? It's good they suck yet keep their jobs? Schools sucks? I don't follow your statement here. Are you implying we should just close all schools, fire all teachers, and kids can teach themselves?

Please clarify. (And understand, I get that you were pointing out the failure of our education system, but you lost me on the solution.)

Here's where you are completely wrong. The CC is not the test. The test is end of grade testing that is there regardless of the curriculum.

Rage against the test. Not the common core.

The CC is the test because this is all they teach towards. The entire curriculum is about the test. It's not about teaching skills. It's not about preparing our children for college or the real world. It's about getting them to do well on a test so the schools can get funding and politicians can use those tests score to pretend like they did something about education.

It's the "No Child Left Behind" act with a different name.

Who developed Common Core (the Bill Gates Foundation)? What are their credentials? Why are educators at all levels rejecting it and politicians embracing it? Why don't parents and educators get a say in what their children are learning or what they're teaching?

Post by **TheCatt** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:02 pm

GORDON wrote:The school told us the test is brand new and based on what they are taught according to the CC curriculum. This PARCC testing was only introduced when the CC curriculum was. The school shouldn't be lying to us.

http://www.parcconline.org/about-parcc

PARCC is based on the core belief that assessment should work as a tool for enhancing teaching and learning. Because the assessments are aligned with the new, more rigorous Common Core State Standards (CCSS), they ensure that every child is on a path to college and career readiness by measuring what students should know at each grade level.

There you go, the testing is BASED on the CC, and are not a PRODUCT of the CC.

Post by **TheCatt** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:04 pm

Leisher wrote:Why are educators at all levels rejecting it and politicians embracing it? Why don't parents and educators get a say in what their children are learning or what they're teaching?

Don't know, are they retards who are afraid of and incapable of change?

The CC is the test because this is all they teach towards. The entire curriculum is about the test. It's not about teaching skills. It's not about preparing our children for college or the real world. It's about getting them to do well on a test so the schools can get funding and politicians can use those tests score to pretend like they did something about education.

It's the "No Child Left Behind" act with a different name.

Blame the testing, not the curriculum.

Post by **GORDON** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:26 pm

Well, I noticed this isn't in effect in NC, so you haven't actually had to deal with it.

Post by **TheCatt** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:45 pm

GORDON wrote:Well, I noticed this isn't in effect in NC, so you haven't actually had to deal with it.

We have some kind of EOG testing that takes up weeks. I don't think it starts til 3rd grade though. So Thib would know more than me.

But we've had CC for 2 years now, I think.

Edited By TheCatt on 1425858346

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:48 pm

What? It's good that his teachers have failed him? It's good they suck yet keep their jobs? Schools sucks? I don't follow your statement here. Are you implying we should just close all schools, fire all teachers, and kids can teach themselves?

I'm suggesting (I say this as someone who's been a student, TA, professor, knows a regent on the board of a Big Ten university, and has a drinking buddy who's been a college professor for a about three plus decades after winning the unofficial "top CS grad student" in the world award at the end of his schooling career):

1) The current educational system sucks. It stands to reason the teachers suck. One cannot change the oil from the shitty engine and expect results. One must rip out and replace the engine.

My point is that there are other countries doing much better than we are, so why are we trying to create something from scratch instead of adapting some of what they're doing?

2) Which ones? Do you just want to apply the standards from the top countries to our students? What's your plan when the fail rate's over 50%? The US is the tubby kid trying to climb the rope in the gym class of international education. Making him climb higher doesn't help. A successful education system in any country is a product of the demographics, geopolitics, and culture of the state. You want less stupid grads and more of them? Fix the latter two. Stop making it acceptable and cool to be a fucking idiot. One cannot simply toss the failing idiots out the door. They become problems when left to their own devices.

3) Invariably, without any inconsistency whatsoever, in every classroom I've ever observed or been a part of -- those who give a fuck and have a genuine incentive to learn will bury and outpace exponentially all other categories of student. There is no set of standards that will foster the desire to learn. It must come from elsewhere. If I had a kid coming home from grade school bitching about how unpleasant the testing is, the very first thing I'd make clear is that most teachers are only employed because parrots haven't learned how to read. The second thing I'd make clear is that he can be smarter than that teacher in a decade and command twice the salary. There's nothing wrong with being angry and pissed off unless you waste the energy on something non-constructive.

Edited By Malcolm on 1425869330

Post by **Vince** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:00 am

I suspect home schooling will make huge leaps until they decide college entrance exams will be tested off CC.

Post by **TheCatt** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:52 am

My point is that there are other countries doing much better than we are, so why are we trying to create something from scratch instead of adapting some of what they're doing?

If you look around the world, our top students are as good as any other country. Our shitty students are the ones who bring us down. [Can't find the source for that, know I read it within the past 2 years]

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:55 am

I also think it has to do with parenting, not necessarily any particular teaching method.

My kid is going to get a good education in spite of what the local school system does to him. I think the Japanese, since that was the comparison, spend a lot of their time with their kids (or, at least riding their asses), after school working on the homework.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:24 am

If you look around the world, our top students are as good as any other country.

Every country has an all-star team. No depth on our bench.

I suspect home schooling will make huge leaps until they decide college entrance exams will be tested off CC.

You want to talk about fucking things up ... I've never met a normal homeschooled person. Ever. They always had at least one major social deficiency. The ones who were only children were the absolute worst.

I also think it has to do with parenting...

Invariably, without any inconsistency whatsoever, in every classroom I've ever observed or been a part of -- those who give a fuck and have a genuine incentive to learn will bury and outpace exponentially all other categories of student. There is no set of standards that will foster the desire to learn. It must come from elsewhere.

Edited By Malcolm on 1425911088

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:18 am

Actual news, not just speculation. Got on a conference call with the principal of the school and my wife. Wife has been pitching a fit with the teachers via email (always put it in writing) and she CCs the principal on everything. Asking why the word search was weighted so heavily, asking why my kid got punished for not filling in a PARCC practice test bubble correctly.... even though he got a 97% on the test otherwise. Asking why PARCC practice was taking up months of time before the actual test.

Principal came off vacation, and called us.

She is either a great actor, or she actually does care about her job. Over the years I have always been impressed with her, whenever we've interacted. She was the same, now. She expressed understanding with our issues, said we had legitimate grievances, and agreed that a lot of these things were not right. She also strongly implied that because of the state's requirements, and the teacher's union, she has very little control over her own school, and while she will look into these problems, there was very little she could do. The state is requiring the testing, and the teacher's union is telling the teachers to do what they are doing... stop at nothing to get good scores on the testing, because their raises depend on it.

So basically, we're fucked 3 ways. The state is dictating what to teach, the union is telling them how to teach it, and the principal (not in the union) has no authority to address parent concerns when things go off the rails.

Edited By GORDON on 1425914318

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:34 am

...stop at nothing to get good scores on the testing, because their raises depend on it.

Parents ought to have their kids tank the test on purpose.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:38 am

Recently the science teacher told the kids there were X types of volcanoes. My kid said, "No, there are X+1." teacher disagrees, told my kid to be quiet. The next day my kid took in the National Geographic that he and I had read the week before, and cited his references. Teacher told him, "Well, we don't teach that one."

At least my kid didn't get kept inside from recess, again.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:43 am

Know what... now that I think about it, science teacher put my kid out in the hallway for disrupting class when he tried to make the teacher smarter. So yeah, he was punished.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:43 am

Teacher told him, "Well, we don't teach that one."

Have your kid flip him off and make the excuse it's a nervous tick.

"No one ever taught me that gesture was obscene."

Post by **TheCatt** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:01 pm

GORDON wrote:Recently the science teacher told the kids there were X types of volcanoes. My kid said, "No, there are X+1." teacher disagrees, told my kid to be quiet. The next day my kid took in the National Geographic that he and I had read the week before, and cited his references. Teacher told him, "Well, we don't teach that one."

At least my kid didn't get kept inside from recess, again.

Experiences like this are what caused me to give up on public education. I expect that most of the education will be decent, anything else is up to parents.

Post by **Vince** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:07 pm

GORDON wrote:Know what... now that I think about it, science teacher put my kid out in the hallway for disrupting class when he tried to make the teacher smarter. So yeah, he was punished.

Not a good education lesson, but a pretty realistic employer/employee lesson. Some bosses are open to being corrected. Some not so much.

Just tell your kid this went from being a science lesson to a sociology lesson.

Post by **GORDON** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:17 pm

Yeah, I have already told him that everyone is full of shit to some extent, and teachers are not exempt from that. I'm sure he does not fully grasp what I am saying yet, but it's there. He has a perfect memory as far as I can tell.

Post by **Leisher** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:12 pm

Malcolm wrote:
...stop at nothing to get good scores on the testing, because their raises depend on it.
Parents ought to have their kids tank the test on purpose.

Now there's an idea. Maybe not tank it, but simply refuse to participate.

All you need is get a majority of parents/students in one school district to pledge that they will not show up for that final test that determines funding, and shit should hit the fan. Especially if other school districts start to copy cat that move, which they will.

It'd be fun watching a city and state threaten their taxpayers and their children, and thus, saying they have no right to an opinion in how their child is educated.

Post by **GORDON** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:59 pm

I've always said this shit was about money, and not any particular concern about giving kids an education. There wasn't enough money in teaching tired ol' reading, writing, and arithmetic.... they had to invent something completely different and sell a whole new set of textbooks.

Then they had to monitor social media to see what people were saying about it:

http://tinyurl.com/p7e5jwg

Pearson, the world’s largest education company, is monitoring social media during the administration of the new PARCC Common Core test to detect any security breaches, and a spokeswoman said that it was “obligated” to alert authorities when any problems were discovered.

....

Students in New Jersey are now taking the PARCC, a Common Core test created by the Partnership for the Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers, one of two multi-state consortia given $360 million in federal funds to design new standardized tests that align with the Common Core State Standards. PARCC testing is underway in several other states amid a growing opt-out movement by parents who are refusing to allow their children to take the test. Pearson has a contract of more than $100 million to administer the PARCC in New Jersey.

Moneymoneymoney Mon-AY..... MONEY!