Welcome to Thunderdome

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:19 pm**

Vince wrote:
TPRJones wrote:There was a really good study a couple of years back that made a solid point that about 5% of males are gay, with just over half being in the closet to one degree or another. But if an argument is going to be made about that being too small a number of people to worry about, remember that Jews are only 1.4% of the population and they have legal protections.
I took his point being along my suspicions that there's a whole lot of noise being made about this that belies a spontaneous movement driven by a segment of the population that small. There's a much larger engine at work here and motivations beyond gay rights.

Another thought on who might be helping behind the scenes to keep this going...

Who was the only group so far to successfully take on the federal government with Obamacare? Hobby Lobby. Using religious exemption. That's the OTHER thing these laws protect against. Which oddly isn't getting any coverage.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:04 pm**

People should be excellent to each other, the end.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:24 pm**

Vince wrote:So Atheists that refuse to pray in doing so are acknowledging that there is a God? Jews by refusing to print Aryan propaganda are admitting to their own Nazism? I could go on and on.

You could, but I can't see how those are at all parallel.

The event that needs catering clearly still exists so the first one doesn't apply. It's only whether it is a legitimate wedding or not that is in question. And the way you phrased the second one the analogy would mean that by refusing to cater a gay wedding then that means the caterer must be gay, which is just silly.

Edited By TPRJones on 1428096495

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:37 pm**

Jews by refusing to print Aryan propaganda are admitting to their own Nazism?

Free speech is a bitch. While I can't imagine a white supremacist going to a Jewish printer, the Nazis cross a line the gays don't. They advocate genocide, which is something plainly against the law, clothed in political free speech bullshit though it may be. Even then, I fall back to the argument of the dude showing the rest of his Jewish customers boycott his store. Also, antisemitism isn't something that Jews and Nazis hold in the same regard. Marriage is something apparently held sacred by a great many folk. The hypothetical baker/pizza guy is making a distinction between straight weddings and gay weddings. The hypothetical Jew is making a distinction between the reality of his right to exist and the Nazi's take on the same thing. If some atheists come around to a Ned Flanders-type guy and pull the shit you're talking about, Flanders seems well within his rights to tell them to fuck off.

By refusing they are accepting that it is indeed a valid wedding in the first place.

If there is no threat or offense taken from an event, then refutation of it is moot; it's harmless in any case. You would transitively be getting in a fuss about nothing. Once the gay couple tells you about the wedding, the thought's in your head. Your refusal of service means zero to the outcome of the event itself, and it's only your brain that gets benefits because you can put the occasion out of your mind forever. On the other hand, accepting the job means more or less one thing: you'll be thinking about the gay wedding more and more because you need to get your damn job done on time. You'll have to deliver the widget/cake/pizza and ***GASP*** might see ... things. Unless you're walking in on the middle of an actual orgy, the worst you'll see is two people of the same sex dancing and maybe kissing. You aren't buying them a gift, you are delivering a commodity and being compensated. You aren't asking them where they're going on their honeymoon, you're asking them, "So, how many tiers on this?"

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:43 pm**

Lefties are now trying to get the GoFundMe shut down as fraudulent. Seems to be some sort of reporter, I don't know. The writing and details are murky.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/355932.php

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:57 pm**

That's a bit excessive.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:01 pm**

GORDON wrote:Lefties are now trying to get the GoFundMe shut down as fraudulent. Seems to be some sort of reporter, I don't know. The writing and details are murky.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/355932.php

They've evil.

"Alix Bryan, this is your dry cleaner. Your brown shirts are ready."

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:42 pm**

GORDON wrote:Lefties are now trying to get the GoFundMe shut down as fraudulent. Seems to be some sort of reporter, I don't know. The writing and details are murky.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/355932.php

She is not being excellent.

Posted: **Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:40 pm**

Whoa... bogus...

Posted: **Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:26 pm**

Sort of interesting that, for the most part, those of us in favor of forced vaccinations are opposed to forcing people to do business with people with whom they don't want to, and those of us opposed to forced vaccinations are in favor of forcing people to do other shit they don't want to do.

Edited By GORDON on 1428193617

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:14 pm**

70 year old florist being sued because she wouldn't do a gay wedding.

Here's her defense fund:

http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:22 pm**

As far as I can tell, what she did is illegal in the state of Washington, and the couple has every right to sue.

I had some sympathy for the Indiana pizzeria, given that no actual discrimination occurred. I have none here.

She failed to be excellent to others.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:47 pm**

Barronelle Stutzman, a Christian florist, referred her friend and long-time customer to other florists because she could not in good conscience provide full wedding support for a same-sex wedding.

Then you have an issue with gay people getting married and the gov't says you don't get to own a biz specifically because of shit like this. If your religion feels the same way about gingers as hers does about gays, then you can deny service to redheads. This is just as absurd.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:23 pm**

Is suing the old lady for being old fashioned the current measure of "be excellent to each other?"

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:59 pm**

GORDON wrote:Is suing the old lady for being old fashioned the current measure of "be excellent to each other?"

We have to start with who failed to be excellent first.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:33 pm**

I better buy a gun to save myself from the excellent people.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:51 pm**

A biz, private or public, shouldn't get the same application of freedom of religion as a private citizen, well ... maybe if you follow the Rules of Acquisition, but that's not really a religion, either. In your house or house of worship, you can call the shots based on whatever spiritual or political whim you want. If you want legal status as a biz, then you follow the rules set by the gov't. Otherwise you shouldn't qualify for shit like a small biz loan or any of the other biz-related tax breaks. You're a self-employed freelancer that bases their decisions on their faith. Citizens walking into a biz have an expectation of commerce. They shouldn't be treated separately because of their marital and sexual status. The gov't has a vested interest in making sure that minority has access to the same goods and services everyone else does. If you provide widgets, except to gay weddings, then you're being discriminatory in a way the gov't doesn't allow.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:45 pm**

I'm going Galt.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:27 pm**

Malcolm wrote:If you want legal status as a biz, then you follow the rules set by the gov't.

And it's illegal to not work within the government's rules if you want to run a business.

Posted: **Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:33 pm**

TheCatt wrote:As far as I can tell, what she did is illegal in the state of Washington, and the couple has every right to sue.

I had some sympathy for the Indiana pizzeria, given that no actual discrimination occurred. I have none here.

She failed to be excellent to others.

Isn't there a federal law she falls under, though?

Welcome to Thunderdome

Indiana's freedom of religious discrimination