Game of Thrones  *SPOILERS* - For the nights dark and full of SPOILERS

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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

If it makes you feel better I place about as much value on children as I do on other humans. I didn't meant to imply I value adults more or anything like that.
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Post by GORDON »

Some are nice. Some might be able to do stuff for you and have value to you.
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Post by TPRJones »

You shall not tempt me into despoiling my misanthropy with your bribes, foul demon! :p
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Post by Troy »

Glad this is now a spoilery thread, because I've been terrible at it despite trying to be good.

That said, solid whoodunnit, GRRM episodes are the bomb.

As crazy as the Royal Shinding was, it was still a dull wedding, by Dothraki standards.




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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote:Glad this is now a spoilery thread, because I've been terrible at it despite trying to be good.

That said, solid whoodunnit, GRRM episodes are the bomb.

As crazy as the Royal Shinding was, it was still a dull wedding, by Dothraki standards.
It aint over yet.... we've had the first death, and tensions are running high...
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Post by GORDON »

TPRJones wrote:You shall not tempt me into despoiling my misanthropy with your bribes, foul demon! :p
I am naturally nice, but have been beaten down into cynicism regarding other people by harsh reality. Where other people are concerned I always hope for the best but always plan for someone who would kill me for a dollar.
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Post by Malcolm »

Who'd fork out a dollar to put a hit on you?
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Post by GORDON »

Malcolm wrote:Who'd fork out a dollar to put a hit on you?
As far as I know, everyone.

It's always the person you don't expect.
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Post by Malcolm »

GORDON wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Who'd fork out a dollar to put a hit on you?
As far as I know, everyone.

It's always the person you don't expect.
I mean, I might, but for $1 and you, I'd need to get at least BOGO on that.
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Post by GORDON »

Ok, let's play "Root Cause." I love looking at complex systems and trying to figure out how they work, and what started them.

Ned died in season 1 because his buddy King Robert came to make him the Hand.

He needed a new Hand because the old one died. No one has said "murder" until after he leaves for King's Landing and Cat gets the note.

Ned died because he uncovered the same shit the previous Hand did re: incest babies, so he was set up to fail by the same people. He was meant to be exiled to The Wall but Joffrey is an insane cunt so Ned's dead, baby... Ned's dead.

NOW......... Littlefinger. It was his deception that steered the Starks to declare war on the Lannisters, when he tried to have Crippled Bran assassinated. Apparently it was his knife and he directly lied to Cat saying he lost it in a bet to the Imp. His motivation is that he wants payback on the Starks for humiliating him as a teenager and stealing the woman he loved. That brother died, so he wanted his revenge on the Stark that Cat was with. He either just wanted payback, or it was a twisted assumption that now that all that was standing between his and Cat's love was those mean Stark bullies. He mentioned to one of his whores that he was saving himself for a specific woman... we are led to believe it is Cat Stark.

So what came first.... former Hand discovering the Queen of Brother Humping which led to his murder by the Lannisters, or did Littlefinger let Cercei know her secret was out, figuring Robert would call on Ned to come to KL? I kind of lean toward Former Hand (John Aryn?) finding out and getting poisoned, Robert calling on Ned to replace him, and Littlefinger seeing an opportunity to be a cunt and get some payback on the Starks once he saw Ned putting his toe in the same dangerous waters John Aryn did. But Littlefinger made the play to kill Bran and frame the Lannisters before Ned got to KL.

Convoluted. There's the bag of snakes, let's get them all laid out straight.
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Post by Troy »

You are right about a number of things, but Litterfinger didn't have anything to do with Bran. Joffrey stole the dagger from Tyrion and hired a dude to finish the job he realized his (real) Dad and Mom started. I think this was mentioned in a convo between Tyrion and Cersei?

Littlefinger did seem to pull a lot of the strings that helped Ned to his fate, though. Essentially getting Ned all riled up, promising his support with the city guard, and then betraying him.




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Post by GORDON »

I finished the first book a week ago, I have absolutely no memory of Joffrey having anything to do with Bran's attempted assassination. Littlefinger's story to the Starks was that he lost the dagger to Tyrion at a tourny when Tyrion bet against his brother, but apart, Tyrion told Cat, "Trust me, I never bet against my family" or something to that effect. I tend to believe him. However, I guess that doesn't mean he said Joffrey couldn't have done it.

Do you think Joffrey knew who his real father was? I never had that impression. He almost looked sad at Robert's deathbed, but didn't really have the capacity for empathy beyond that little bit.
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Post by GORDON »

Although, the timing of it all has been bugging me, when I was thinking Littlefinger did it. If it takes them a month to walk the King's Road between Winterfell and KL, that assumes at least 300 miles. That must be about 10 days for a raven. That assumes at least 20 days between Bran falling, raven to KL informing Littlefinger, raven back to Winterfell to arrange the execution. How long were they at Winterfell to plan and hand off the dagger and stuff? That always bugged me. They didn't have twitter to arrange these things in real time.
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Post by GORDON »

ACTUALLY, this says 1000 miles. That suggests 30 days one-way for a raven, so 2 months if Littlefinger arranged the assassination.

Also, no way they were making 33 miles a day with that big-ass wagon in which the queen was traveling, to do that trip in a month.
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Post by Troy »

E:

I'm confusing things. Joffrey hired the thug to murder Bran because his (not real) Father, Robert Baratheon said it would be a "mercy".

I still think Joffrey died knowing who his real parents were though.




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Post by GORDON »

So Littlefinger lost the dagger to Imp, Joffrey hears not-dad say killing Bran would be a mercy, Joffrey steals dagger to have Bran assassinated and frame Imp for it, because Imp recently slapped him around?
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Post by Troy »

That sounds right. The problem is that book itself doesn't make what actually happened concrete. You only get POV Tyrion working it out in his head because he nearly got killed over the whole ordeal (we are well past that point on the show and they can't really do POV thought processes)

So "it was Littlefinger" is a perfectly good theory, tbh.




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Post by GORDON »

I never saw Joffrey as having the kind of deep planning skills to not only try to pull off an assassination but also frame someone else for it. He seems more like a "I am going to kill this puppy so" *strangles puppy.* But it does make more sense than Littlefinger doing it.

I will plug that new information into my order of events, later. Busy day today.
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Post by TPRJones »

For some reason I thought it was Cersei that took the dagger and set up Bran's death. I don't remember why I thought that, though.
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Post by GORDON »

1. Littlefinger still seems to have his little fingers in the pie. That changes things somewhat.

2. Goddam, they give Daenerys so many show closers because she just shuts shit down. Didn't even need to see the dragons this time. I think the Westeros is going to have a real problem when she crosses the sea... she is winning by talking, Sun Tzu style. Of course, by the time she crosses the sea Westeros is going to be glaciated with a bunch of white walkers standing around looking bored because they killed everybody who was left.
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