Sex Scandals

[Leisher]

She did like it when I took her from behind.

[TheCatt]

She did like it when I took her from behind.

She says you liked it more when she pegged you

[Leisher]

She did like it when I took her from behind.

She says you liked it more when she pegged you

Oh that? Well, don't tell her, but I pulled a bit of a trick on her there. She was blindfolded because I couldn't stand to look at her face. Thus, she wasn't pegging me, but rather someone else in the orgy. I had left the room to watch Sportscenter.

[Leisher]

The Louis CK pile on has begun.

Apparently, this is now devolving into a "all straight white men do this" argument. Check out Zoe Kazan's tweet:

condolences, straight white dudes.

Yep. ALL straight white males do this, but if you generalize ANY other race, sex, or group of any sort, you're a Nazi and should die.

[Troy]

The Louis CK pile on has begun.

I'd heard rumors about the Louis CK accusations before all this went public though. Didn't want to believe because I loved his comedy. Ol' Harvey seems to have given women the kick in the pants they needed to get their accusations out in the open.

It's hard for me to fathom guys acting like this, or the mindset that you can say such ridiculously awful things to women.

I talked to my wife about the subject last night, and was surprised to hear that she lost count of the inappropriate comments she received while working at CNN. She barely mentioned it to me, but certain guys would regularly says stuff like "damn you look sexy" when she would walk into meetings. All she could do was ignore it. Another time she was working with a guy editing a piece, and email came into his inbox with a particularly graphic subject line ABOUT HER from another guy - creepy shit.

She'd only told me about one aggressive guy pestering her during her work there(while we were engaged!), and I convinced her to go to HR and put a stop to that. It must have been pretty bad in retrospect, as it was the only one worth mentioning to me.

I guess the more I hear about it, the more I'm just defaulting to believing women and accusers when they are corroborated or in multiples. This shit is fucked up.

[TheCatt]

Perception of sexual harassment

[Leisher]

This shit is fucked up.

Absolutely. No question. If you're pulling out your dick unsolicited in front of a woman you are not in a romantic encounter or relationship with, you're committing a crime. If you're grabbing a woman's "private areas", and again, you're not involved with her, you're committing a crime. If you're making lewd comments to a woman, you're an asshole.

However...

There is an alternate side to these scandals that annoys the ever loving shit out of me because it isn't talked about:
1. Women sexually harass men too. I get harassed EVERY FUCKING DAY and people here think it's hilarious. Our society doesn't think a black female administrative assistant can sexually harass a white male manager. I have more power than her in the company. I'm white and male. She's a female minority. It just doesn't fit what society has determined is actual sexual harassment, which seems to be "white men in power".

2. Look at the image Catt posted. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 are clearly harassment and unwanted advances. I need more information on #4 as I think that's too vague. #8 is complete bullshit unless strictly referring to men staring at a woman's breasts while talking to them. #9 I get, but also disagree with to a point. #10 would depend on circumstance. #11 is completely true if a guy says, "Your tits look amazing today", but complete horseshit if a guy says, "You look lovely today". And #12 is proof that there is no black and white guide to what sexual harassment is and/or what it entails.

3. Gold digging whores. I'm with Bill Burr that women need to address that massive double standard. Don't make sexual innuendos at the office, but it's fine if Sally fucks and sucks her way to the top or marries some guy and has kids with him just to get access to his bank account.

4. Guys are morons. Not that this excuses the behavior, but nature designed us that way. Mother Nature gave us a seed to spread and the desire to do so. Human beings created these arbitrary rules for how, when, and where you're allowed to spread that seed. This is, literally, nature in action, and at some point someone should bring that point up. I don't want these people's actions forgiven or excused because of it, but if you want to find a long term solution for it, the underlying root cause must be discussed.

By the way, #7 in that chart is fucking HILARIOUS. Women seem to be less offended when there's less of a chance someone will whistle at them.

[TheCatt]

Women sexually harass men too. I get harassed EVERY FUCKING DAY and people here think it's hilarious.

It's not harassment if you want it.

The whole thing is complicated. But At least in your #3, it's complicit. Sure the woman may be under-handed, but the man isn't caring.

[TheCatt]

Louis CK says it's all true

[Leisher]

It's not harassment if you want it.

Oh, I've actually complained to multiple people. They all laugh. Nobody takes it seriously. She touches me, comments on my ass, talked to me about her dildos, etc. and done so in front of witnesses. Nobody cares.

But At least in your #3, it's complicit. Sure the woman may be under-handed, but the man isn't caring.

Not true. I'm not talking solely about trophy wives that marry rich older men. I've known plenty of poor and middle class guys who have been taken to the cleaners by bitches that never loved them.

Louis CK says it's all true

Apparently all these Louis CK stories, including his admission, have been out there for years, but the Weinstein thing means they have fresh legs.

[Leisher]

This is NOT sexual harassment...

[Troy]

Oh, I've actually complained to multiple people. They all laugh. Nobody takes it seriously. She touches me, comments on my ass, talked to me about her dildos, etc. and done so in front of witnesses. Nobody cares.

That's legitimately fucked up. You're being sexually harassed. If Terry Crews can make a stink about it, so should you. If were going to get any of this change of perception to take hold, it HAS to be both sides.

A lot of the items on that chart are more nuanced and difficult than can be represented in that way. Many of the items on the right side don't meet my personal threshold when they are a one-off. I'll be the first to say I enjoy getting checked out by women on the city streets and in bars when I travel, makes me know I'm keeping good care of myself.

But if you took some of these in conjunction, a wink/staring at your boobs/touching your lower back/asking you for drinks every day for a week. When it's obviously unwanted? Yeah that certainly qualifies.

[Troy]

Apparently all these Louis CK stories, including his admission, have been out there for years, but the Weinstein thing means they have fresh legs.

It sucks bad, a lot of his comedy about "guys being gross" takes on a different light now.

[Troy]

This shit is fucked up.

4. Guys are morons. Not that this excuses the behavior, but nature designed us that way. Mother Nature gave us a seed to spread and the desire to do so. Human beings created these arbitrary rules for how, when, and where you're allowed to spread that seed. This is, literally, nature in action, and at some point someone should bring that point up. I don't want these people's actions forgiven or excused because of it, but if you want to find a long term solution for it, the underlying root cause must be discussed.

I don't like this, I get what you are trying to say, but basic, primal instincts would have us bashing each other in the head with rocks at the slightest insult. We don't because as a society we've seen progress by trying to be better than animals, and we can't be a more advanced culture if we rely on "well monkeys did this so what can you do" kind of thinking.

[Troy]

3. Gold digging whores. I'm with Bill Burr that women need to address that massive double standard. Don't make sexual innuendos at the office, but it's fine if Sally fucks and sucks her way to the top or marries some guy and has kids with him just to get access to his bank account.

This one's hard too. I get there are conniving women out there. But I'm old enough now that I know guys that have been happily married for many years, 3 months of bad shit and boom, the woman is now the most awful, vile bitch on planet. When the relationship was good, it was good. (this one goes out to by boss, married for 20 something years, who is now in the "never get married camp")

And god knows Seeking Arrangements is a thriving website. And Instagram "models" are making those dollars.

Guys enjoy the fruits sometimes, and even if older, time-travel-bitter-Bob and fucking-the-hottest-girl-I've-ever-been-with-Bob sat down and talked, fucking-Bob might not even change his ways.

[Troy]

This is NOT sexual harassment...

Would and would.

She DID kiss a girl and like it, right?

[Leisher]

That's legitimately fucked up. You're being sexually harassed. If Terry Crews can make a stink about it, so should you. If were going to get any of this change of perception to take hold, it HAS to be both sides.

It's tough because it's been 12 years now. She's done stuff in front of the HR Manager, the CFO, the president, etc. Nobody questions the validity, they just don't care because I'm me. I attract attention and I have a very outgoing sense of humor. I think that makes nobody think I am uncomfortable, but I am.

She always called my coincidentally attractive vendors "SWBs" (Skinny White Bitches). She has even joked about things happening to my wife...

A lot of the items on that chart are more nuanced and difficult than can be represented in that way. Many of the items on the right side don't meet my personal threshold when they are a one-off. I'll be the first to say I enjoy getting checked out by women on the city streets and in bars when I travel, makes me know I'm keeping good care of myself.

But if you took some of these in conjunction, a wink/staring at your boobs/touching your lower back/asking you for drinks every day for a week. When it's obviously unwanted? Yeah that certainly qualifies.

Exactly. Standing alone it's VERY difficult to judge those actions. Circumstances could warrant harassment or innocent behavior. Add them all together in a short period of time, and yeah, it's harassment.

I don't like this, I get what you are trying to say, but basic, primal instincts would have us bashing each other in the head with rocks at the slightest insult. We don't because as a society we've seen progress by trying to be better than animals, and we can't be a more advanced culture if we rely on "well monkeys did this so what can you do" kind of thinking.

I'm on board with you not agreeing, I'm saying it needs to be discussed. You can't deny men have the sex drive to spread our seed, while the women have that nesting instinct. That's nature, not sexism. However, since marriage is a man made construct, do you really KNOW it has improved life? Do you think caged animals or free animals have the better life? I know that sounds like a punchline, but take it seriously. Does the threat of legal action, financial ruin, public humiliation, etc. altering your behavior really make you better? (I'm not arguing either way, I'm asking.) Doesn't the 50% divorce rate prove we're not doing it right? What about the ever growing number of cheating women, and the increasingly out of control bachelorette parties? What if marriage was the exception and not the rule? Are we certain society would be worse off?

Just because we have done something and keep doing it doesn't mean it's right or the best course of action.

This one's hard too. I get there are conniving women out there. But I'm old enough now that I know guys that have been happily married for many years, 3 months of bad shit and boom, the woman is now the most awful, vile bitch on planet. When the relationship was good, it was good. (this one goes out to by boss, married for 20 something years, who is now in the "never get married camp")

And god knows Seeking Arrangements is a thriving website. And Instagram "models" are making those dollars.

Guys enjoy the fruits sometimes, and even if older, time-travel-bitter-Bob and fucking-the-hottest-girl-I've-ever-been-with-Bob sat down and talked, fucking-Bob might not even change his ways.

Nah, we're not talking about the same thing here. I've known women who intentionally get knocked up to trap a guy and/or get that check. That's not in the same realm as someone happily married changing their tune years later. Also, it doesn't cover people who go into said relationship with a firm understanding of what it's about.

You're kind of proving my point by explaining or excusing gold digging behavior. It exists. How many women do you know that go to bars without money? I've known quite a few that do it. If we're condemning a behavior that uses a position of power for personal sexual gain, then we should condemn behavior using a position of power for financial gain, right? And we all know, the pussy is the power.

[Troy]

Nah, we're not talking about the same thing here. I've known women who intentionally get knocked up to trap a guy and/or get that check. That's not in the same realm as someone happily married changing their tune years later. Also, it doesn't cover people who go into said relationship with a firm understanding of what it's about.

You're kind of proving my point by explaining or excusing gold digging behavior. It exists. How many women do you know that go to bars without money? I've known quite a few that do it. If we're condemning a behavior that uses a position of power for personal sexual gain, then we should condemn behavior using a position of power for financial gain, right? And we all know, the pussy is the power.

Right definitely talking about different things. Even a non military guy like me knows the dependapotamus stories and their ilk. It's all bad. But what do those (obviously bad) cases have to do with sexual assault? Or (I think what you are saying) used to justify sexual assault by powerful men? Can't they just both be bad?

[Leisher]

Nah, we're not talking about the same thing here. I've known women who intentionally get knocked up to trap a guy and/or get that check. That's not in the same realm as someone happily married changing their tune years later. Also, it doesn't cover people who go into said relationship with a firm understanding of what it's about.

You're kind of proving my point by explaining or excusing gold digging behavior. It exists. How many women do you know that go to bars without money? I've known quite a few that do it. If we're condemning a behavior that uses a position of power for personal sexual gain, then we should condemn behavior using a position of power for financial gain, right? And we all know, the pussy is the power.

Right definitely talking about different things. Even a non military guy like me knows the dependapotamus stories and their ilk. It's all bad. But what do those (obviously bad) cases have to do with sexual assault? Or (I think what you are saying) used to justify sexual assault by powerful men? Can't they just both be bad?

Slight miscommunication...they are both bad and I'm not using one to justify another.

I'm saying before we go condemning all "straight white men" (from today's stories) or ALL men, we need to stop pretending women aren't also guilty of sexual crimes or abuses.

Go listen to Eddie Murphy Raw (or was it Delirious?) when he talked about Johnny Carson's divorce and all the women in the audience cheering when he talked about the woman getting half. There is a trend in our society, and there has been for some time, to blame men for everything, specifically white men, and to belittle them as much as possible. Check out every sitcom, and most commercials, where the husband is always an incompetent boob.

Want equality? Want bad stuff to go away? Then you need to shine the light on everyone's crimes, not just one group's.

[Leisher]

Hope Solo makes an accusation.