Microsoft

Mostly PC, but console and mobile too
TheCatt
Site Admin
Posts: 53726
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 11:15 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Post by TheCatt »

Cuz so few products are simultaneously a) so enabling and b) such a pain in the fucking ass to deal with.

I use their OSs because I "have" to. The software that I want to run requires it. I don't use their OS because I like it.
It's not me, it's someone else.
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

If they want to stop selling OS's and just licenses to use the OS for X amount of time, sure, great, drop the price by 75% and sign me up. But when I've already purchased... 7? copies of their OS which they've deliberately made worthless... it irks me.



Edited By GORDON on 1151511167
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
User avatar
Cakedaddy
Posts: 8798
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:52 pm

Post by Cakedaddy »

Deliberately made worthless is the key point.

Ventrilo, a voice communications application for gamers still supports Win95 (implied by the Win9x as being a supported platform). However, as soon as Win98 came out, Microsoft's own GameVoice required Win98. They could have done it on Win95, they chose not to.

And I don't see similarities with Leisher's examples of things changing, and what MS does. Sure, new cars come out all the time. And if I want the new features, I buy a new car. But, I don't have to. I have a car that's almost 40 years old and it still works and I can still drive it. I have clothes that are 15 years old. They still work and I can still wear them. Namely, a sweatshirt. So technically, it's even still in style. Media companies made stuff as long as people bought it. They didn't stop making it forcing you to buy their new players. DVDs have been around for how long now? And you can still buy VHS.

And buying Vista won't be driven by the fact that I want to use the new features it has. It will be driven by the fact that MS pressures others to write for that platform. So when I want to use OTHER people's stuff, I will have to buy the new Windows. Not cause I want to, but because I have to. And why do I have to? Because MS tells those that want to carry the 'Works with Windows logo' that they will now only support the new windows. Thus, there will come a day when a game will cost me $160 for me to be able to play it. Not cause I want the new windows, but because I want to play that game.
User avatar
Cakedaddy
Posts: 8798
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:52 pm

Post by Cakedaddy »

And technically, Gordon, MS already has temp licenses that are about half the cost of a normal. They are the OEM versions. You can buy them for about half the cost of a retail version. Catch is, OEMs are not upgradable and they are not transferable. If you install an OEM version on a PC, then later, buy a new upgraded PC, you can't uninstall it from the first PC and put it on the new one. You have to buy a new OEM license. So, it's a disposable license that is to be thrown away with the PC it's installed on.

However, what constitutes a PC? The case? The motherboard? The CPU? The harddrive? I upgrade my PCs all the time, often using parts from my previous PC. At what point am I running on a new PC? If I move all the guts to a new case, is this a new PC? What if I replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM but keep the hard drive? Is it a new PC now? Cause technically, I could install the old harddrive and have Windows autodetect everything and work without reinstalling. But then surely, if my harddrive dies at some point, I don't have to buy a new license to get my PC back do I? Oh well, just thoughts I've had about OEM licenses. . .

But anyway, OEM is what you're looking for. BUT. . . . it's still $100 for the OS.
Leisher
Site Admin
Posts: 65256
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 9:17 pm
Contact:

Post by Leisher »

Because I don't like being forced to upgrade when I don't need to. I'm not running a charity, here. I don't just throw money away because hey... they try hard.


8mm to Beta to VHS to DVD to Blue Ray or HDDVD. All require new equipment and the repurchase of all your favorite films you've collected. Where's the outrage?

The console people do it every 4 years with newer graphics as the only upgrade and raise prices on their hardware and games each time. Where's the outrage?

LPs to 45s to 8 tracks to cassettes to CDs to MP3s. All require new equipment and the repurchase of all your favorite songs/albums you've collected. Where's the outrage?

95 to 98 was a bullshit leap. Same for ME. But why shouldn't MS be allowed to sell a new OS that is based on new technology and has tons of new features? Why should they have to give it away for free?

Now should they offer some sort of rebate for existing customers? If they wanted to give back to their loyal customers, sure, but they shouldn't be required too.

I asked why MS is getting blasted for doing the same thing these other comapnies do and I'm not seeing a good answer.

Someone get Thib into this chain.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
TPRJones
Posts: 13418
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 2:05 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by TPRJones »

8mm to Beta to VHS to DVD to Blue Ray or HDDVD


That span crosses at least 25 years, with five changes, so about five years per change.

LPs to 45s to 8 tracks to cassettes to CDs to MP3s


There's 30 years or more right there, with four changes (you can still play LPs on the 45 player, so that doesn't really count), so about seven years per change.

3.11 to 95 to 98 to ME to 2000 to XP to Vista? That's a little over a decade with five changes, so about two years a change. And there's the outrage. You pay a hell of a lot more for the latest Windows than you do for an album or a movie, and it doesn't last you even half as long before you have to throw it out for the next one.
"ATTENTION: Customers browsing porn must hold magazines with both hands at all times!"
Malcolm
Posts: 32040
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 1:04 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Post by Malcolm »

If everyone hates Winblows & Macroshaft so much, you'd think there'd be an organized, concerted, wide-reaching effort to kill them.

Let's check out some of their flagship products & see how much the customer base cares ...

Internet Exploder v. Mozilla/Safari/Opera/what-the-fuck-ever

IE still has the overwhelming majority of the browser market. This means I've a separate machine on my desk explicitly & solely for the purpose of testing HTML in IE. Much as many folk (including myself) harp on Macroshaft for IE, we are drastically outnumbered & will continue to be for some time.

Windows vs. Crapintosh OS/Unix/Linux/Amiga/everything else

It's not even close. It's just not. The day when some Linux build has a respectable GUI interface instead of the KDE/Blackbox retread shit-on-a-screen I've used & doesn't've a learning curve steeper than a sheer cliff face for the average user, you might start to see some cracks in the market.

Why do Windows & IE beat the competition? Cos they work well enough that the majority of the population w\o a CS degree can use them reasonably alright most of the time.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

To expand on Cake's example a bit, I can have a 15 year old car and still drive it to work. In Microsoft World, the roads will be upgraded to something my old car can't run on, making my perfectly good car worthless.

What has changed about computers that has required all of these OS upgrades? They've been running 32 bit processors for... 12 years?

Why can't I play Quake II on WinXP? Because I tried recently, and it wouldn't run. But the processor was the same. Weird.

No reason besides Microsoft wanted me to buy a new license. No technology upgrade like VHS to DVD. Just because Microsoft felt like it.

And keep in mind, the mid 90's, with plain ol' Win95, was a great time for games and gamers. Quake, Duke3D, XCom, etc etc etc. Win95 (with their holes patched) would still be just fine on today's games, if Microsoft decided it wanted to be. But they don't because they are a business. Not my friend. Not your friend, though you choose to cheerlead for them.

Really, the recent advent of 64 bit processors is the first legitamate reason to make an OS upgrade. Every iteration of Windows since 95A has been just to fix the bugs in their shitty product. It isn't like moving from Atari 2600 to a Nintendo 64.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
User avatar
Cakedaddy
Posts: 8798
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:52 pm

Post by Cakedaddy »

8mm to Beta to VHS to DVD to Blue Ray or HDDVD. All require new equipment and the repurchase of all your favorite films you've collected. Where's the outrage?


8mm and Beta were before my time. Yes, I have stuff in both of those forms still, but I technically was not a consumer at the time. I can still, to this day, buy a machine that will play both VHS and DVD. I can still buy VHS movies. Nothing has been required of me, thus, no outrage. Oh, instead of buying the new high tech device that plays both VHS and DVD, I just have both machines sitting next to the TV.

The console people do it every 4 years with newer graphics as the only upgrade and raise prices on their hardware and games each time. Where's the outrage?


I'm not a consoler. My kid plays with them and I buy them for him (and thus end up playing some on them). But when my kid moves out (which according to my wife, will be never), I won't be owning any more consoles. So there's no outrage because I don't really care about them.


LPs to 45s to 8 tracks to cassettes to CDs to MP3s. All require new equipment and the repurchase of all your favorite songs/albums you've collected. Where's the outrage?


8 tracks. . . never owned one. 45s/LP, I think I had a total of about 7, combined. Cassettes, you can STILL get that standard in a new car and most portable radios have both cassette and CD. Etc. So, no forced upgrades, I can still play both media formats with little cost/effort. No outrage.


95 to 98 was a bullshit leap. Same for ME. But why shouldn't MS be allowed to sell a new OS that is based on new technology and has tons of new features? Why should they have to give it away for free?


They should be able to. They shouldn't have to. But it still sucks. Those three examples are good examples of poor customer service. They fucked us, cause they could. Thank you MS.


Now should they offer some sort of rebate for existing customers? If they wanted to give back to their loyal customers, sure, but they shouldn't be required too.


They do. You can buy the upgrade for less than you could a new license. Good for them. But it's still $100.

I asked why MS is getting blasted for doing the same thing these other comapnies do and I'm not seeing a good answer.


I don't see what MS is doing as being the same as any of your examples. Thus, no good answer. Out of all of your examples, there's not a damn thing (Oops, I forgot about the 7 records. . . . except for those) I have bought as a consumer, ever, that I can't still buy, or that I don't still own, something that's going to make that media work. I can still watch my VHS movies. I can still buy a car with a cassette player in it. I can enjoy all of that stuff, easily and VERY affordably, still. What I can't do though, is use GameVoice on the same OS that was available to me when GV was sold. I can't run any old games. etc. There are many many things (hardware and software) than I can't use due to MS making them obsolete or requiring the purchase of their latest version of OS. So again, I don't see your examples as being the same as MS killing previous versions of their OSes with newer ones.

Oh, all the old obsolete hardware that MS doesn't want to support any more. . . I put those in my Linux box. It was happy to use them.




Edited By Cakedaddy on 1151524826
thibodeaux
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 7:32 pm

Post by thibodeaux »

Someone get Thib into this chain.
NNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

I dunno. I haven't ever had to shell out for a new OS. I've only ever owned 4 computers in my life:

1. Atari 400. There was no OS.
2. PC with Win 98 preinstalled
3. Laptop with XP preinstalled
4. Laptop with XP preinstalled
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

How do you figure you've never purchased an OS?
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
thibodeaux
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 7:32 pm

Post by thibodeaux »

Fine, you know what I mean. I never "upgraded" the OS on any given box.
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

Well, ok... but is there any good reason the old OS you bought shouldn't still be transferable to run on the new machines? It is essentially the same hardware architecture.

You paid for the planned obsolescence.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
thibodeaux
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 7:32 pm

Post by thibodeaux »

Technically I'm only allowed to run 1 copy, right? Box #2 isn't really dead.
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

Ok.

But most peeps don't do that.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
thibodeaux
Posts: 8055
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 7:32 pm

Post by thibodeaux »

Most peeps aren't kewl like I am.
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Post by GORDON »

True dat.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
User avatar
Stranger
Posts: 3180
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:34 pm

Microsoft

Post by Stranger »

Purchase Activision/Blizzard for $70 Billion!

https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-ac ... 3fe3e0a4dd

Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Diablo, Candy Crush are now all under the Microsoft umbrella.
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
Leisher
Site Admin
Posts: 65256
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 9:17 pm
Contact:

Microsoft

Post by Leisher »

Blizzard 4 will probably now be an X-Box exclusive.

MS isn't EA, but their track record for acquiring other developers still sucks.

Also, this is a distributor buying a distributor, so the market there just shrunk a bit. On the bright side, so did the online store market.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
GORDON
Site Admin
Posts: 54397
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: DTManistan
Contact:

Microsoft

Post by GORDON »

Microsoft has killed PC game franchises before.
"Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid."
Post Reply