Lost Ark

Mostly PC, but console and mobile too
Leisher
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Lost Ark

Post by Leisher »

I'm going to be pretty honest after thinking about this for a bit. Anyone ever read my review of Archero? It's one of the first action mobile games that added a daily element, and thus, "the grind". The Grind used to be part of RPGs when you would travel around fighting random monsters to build up your level so you could continue the story. Now the grind is a constant battle to get just a little more stats out of new equipment by doing things that must be done daily to get the maximum reward. So you get on every single day and do daily tasks to ensure you don't lose out on whatever free items are handed out that day in the very unlikely event that you get something you need or want. Every update adds some new game mode or element to give you more tasks to get done for just a little more stats. Like recently they added monster eggs that you collect and hatch. Now they've added levels to them because I think people were hatching them too quickly. Oh, and multiple currencies, no matter what form they take, are super important to keeping people grinding.

I've been playing Archero for two years or so and I'm nowhere near the max of anything, except level. I think this game is that, but not mobile. In fact, does anyone remember when they already tried this exact formula by making Diablo a mobile game, but it failed?

So my TLDR summary would be: This is an absolutely gorgeous Diablo clone that pretends to be an MMO with all the elements you hate from mobile games.

There is, literally, a thread here about how several game companies, particularly the known "money > gamer experience" ones like EA are looking to make games with this exact formula.

The game plays just like Diablo, but I'm using Tryndamere from LoL. (That is legit how this character plays and looks. He even drags his comically oversized sword.)

Loved:
-The graphics! The world is just gorgeous and the cutscenes, character art, and so on are next level.
-Game play is exactly like Diablo (good or bad depending on how you feel about that).
-The story does keep things moving at a perfect pace.
-The pet made it so I didn't have to play pixel hunt in picking up loot. (I didn't pay for that feature...not sure what Cake was talking about. I know it has addition benefits that you can pay for, but I declined.)

Hated:
-For some reason they decided a smaller pointer was the way to go. Huge mistake in a game where they're throwing waves of enemies at you with massive spell and hit effects constantly going off. I was always losing where my mouse was all night.
-Game is super easy. Outside of the raid bosses, there just isn't a challenge. Sure a few boss monsters would hurt me, but I was never in danger. I could always back up to heal and they would disengage.
-50 level max and it's possible to get there within a day or two. But do you see how many worlds there are? That tells me the additional worlds/levels/areas (whatever they call them) are constantly tacked on to give new content and to keep you playing, and hopefully paying...
-Raid bosses are unadvertised.
-There are easily over a dozen currencies in game.
-So many features were uninteresting and clearly tacked on after the game was already out.
-The stupid dynamic of trying to gain influence with certain characters is really, really uninspired. But you know what? In this age of "Only Fans" it totally makes sense.
-The secret areas highlighted by maps were obviously added after launch. First, they launch a solo dungeon that's just an entrance, exit, weak minions, and weak boss. Second, outside of the map you can get for each instance of this, nothing on the map indicates there is anything there. You can even go there without the map and nothing happens. (I did.) Third, this only started happening about 10 hours into my run, which means just like the new stuff in each update of Archero, it was added well after the game was already out.
-I'm going to guess strongholds are also something that was added much later because I've not come to them yet.
-Guilds are absolutely pointless EXCEPT you can farm another currency!!!
-The story and voice acting. Yes, well paced, but man it's boring, cliche, and holy shit the acting is bad.
-There is nothing about the Diablo playstyle that excites me for PvP.

Writing this review and really thinking about it, nothing I did mattered last night. No matter how many people I saved from cages, no matter how many monsters I killed, no matter how many plague orbs I destroyed, they just spawned again within seconds. Nothing I did mattered. It was all pointless. The story element of an RPG is THE biggest factor and it's nonexistent here. In RPGs I'm the protagonist and the things I do matter and affect the story. Not here.

No biggie though, it is an MMO and that element didn't really exist in UO either and that was fun. However, UO had land you could build on, guilds that went to war and mattered. You could actually win a guild fight by attrition and eliminate them. People could role play whatever they wanted, like that tavern outside of Yew that was massively popular. None of that exists here.

I am truly struggling to find the difference between this game and Archero or Firestone Idle RPG or even Shakes and Fidget. Obviously, Lost Ark has better graphics and better interactive fights, but truthfully, I'm not sure the fighting here is better than Archero. Sure, it's MUCH more beautiful, but Archero takes skill. This is just button mashing. All other factors are the same. All have a bunch of currencies. All offer subs and purchases to gain advancement/stats. All offer paths to doing well without P2W. All have guilds. All have daily tasks and so on.

I had a lot of fun playing this last night. It was exactly the distraction I needed from the slumber party going on around me. I even planned to give it another whole day of playing. However, after really thinking about it, I'm uninstalling it now and not looking back. This is just a grindy time sink that wants me to eventually put real world money into it. But for what? A couple more points of strength or attack? A new skin? A new decoration for a house that has no real game purpose?

I really wanted to love this game, and I definitely enjoyed playing it. However, I don't see any point in continuing on. The story is bland and blah and I know there's no real ending, so why keep going? It would just become a time sink that I would eventually grow to dislike as it becomes more like a chore rather than the escape it's supposed to be.

Plus, I cannot support this direction in gaming. This will kill the industry if every company goes this route. I want stories that end and where my actions make a difference. I want competition. I want frustrating fights that I can win, but it's going to take a lot of attempts. I want the anticipation of well thought out sequels. I want to finish a game having experienced it all and then move onto a new game made by new people. If this shit catches on all of that will be in danger of dying. Every publisher will demand studios make these time/money sinks instead of innovative game play and new stories that are unproven.
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Cakedaddy
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Lost Ark

Post by Cakedaddy »

So, you guys have way more time in the game than me. At any point did it become multi? When do the team raids start?
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Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:02 pm At any point did it become multi? When do the team raids start?
The only time I ever needed anyone else or did anything with anyone else is when I stumbled upon the raid bosses. The first one I encountered I tried to fight alone. Just thought he was a regular boss. Then others jumped in and we killed him. The second one I encountered, I heard the fight going on and joined. It took about 5 minutes before we killed him. Good fight, but I'm not keeping the game just to fight raid bosses.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Stranger »

Cakedaddy wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:02 pm So, you guys have way more time in the game than me. At any point did it become multi? When do the team raids start?
I think i'm at level 35 right now, and for the most part no multi yet. The leveling experience is definitely geared towards single player play, which is a little disappointing. I always que'd up for group play for the dungeons in the story mode when they were available. Didn't make it any harder but it was fun to play in a group.

It's obvious this game is using the leveling process to introduce you to the different mechanics in the game. You don't even get to the life skills (loggings, herbing, fishing..) until you complete what i'd call Act 1, when you get to Lucerna? i think its called. The same with quing up for PvP matches. For me that was somewhere in the level 25-30 range. There's mechanics that i haven't even unlocked yet that are there in the menus. Not to mention i haven't even gotten my ship yet to explore any of that portion of the game. Since the leveling is so linear and the quests are so fast i can only imagine this is so that you can get to end game content faster which really, in just about every MMO is what everyone is really trying to get too. i will probably be at max level in 1 week, whereas in WoW it took me 3 months.

Things i don't like thus far:

-Way too easy. Besides a couple of dungeon bosses that made things a little difficult i still walk through everything, kinda sucks. I will say that i've watched some streams of end game raids and the difficulty does ramp up quite a bit. Lots of party wipes so it does get harder but i'm guessing not while leveling.

-Story blows. Not really a big deal in my book because that's not why i play games, particularly MMO's.

-confusing systems and lots of currencies. I like games that are deep and have alot of systems to explore but i've got bags full of shit i have no clue what to do with. Sure i'll get it at some point but right now its a bit much. This is pretty much how lots of MMOs are when they've been out a while though. They've gotta give the hard core crown something else to grind so they put another system in place. WoW and FF14 are the same exact way.

Things i do like:

Combat might be easy but it feels really cool and impactful. I like that you only have 8 skills to choose from, just like Albion its simplified and you don't have 30 different skills and buttons to juggle like WoW and FF14 do.

Quick and linear leveling experience. I don't want to spend 3 months to get to end game content and i don't want to have to keep backtracking to hand in a quest. It keeps moving you forward and seeing new parts of the map. But it does tend towards just playing this part of the game solo.

Cut scenes are really good. I really like the cut scenes that are done within the game engine, there are some really epic moments that are intertwined right into the game like in one particular dungeon boss i can think of.

There are lots of plus and minuses but for the most part i've really enjoyed the game. Will i play it for 2 years like i did WoW Classic? who knows. I've got to get to that point before i can really be sure. Would it make it a failure if i didn't? No. I like to try MMO's and see what they're all about. Bless Unleashed and Magic the Gathering Legends were recent MMO's that i really liked for the time i played them, but when i was done with them i was done. I just know that this game, being that its been in development for 8 years has alot more to offer than just the leveling experience. If thats for you or not then thats totally fine with me, what everyone wants out of an MMO is different. Would i like to play an MMO with this group that we all liked, Yes! MMO's are all better when you have friends to play with. I know i wouldn't have played Archeage or WoW for as long as i did if it weren't for people to play with.

I'm just upset that both of you knuckleheads were playing this game on Saturday night and never bothered to hit me up!!
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Cakedaddy
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Stranger wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:36 am I'm just upset that both of you knuckleheads were playing this game on Saturday night and never bothered to hit me up!!
What would have been the point?! So we can be in discord talking about other stuff while we each level up separately?! I figured, sort of like Archage, there would be some stuff you do by yourself to get your basic gear, then you would join the game and other people. But that doesn't happen till end game?!?!? No. That's not a good MMO design. The WHOLE game should be MM. Hell, there's no reason for this game to be online at all, until end game. Lets all get this game and then. . . not play with each other. . . Horrible decision when making an multiplayed game. In Archage, you relied on friends (or at least allies) for basic stuff. You had to get that backpack to the other island. You couldn't do that alone. You were interacting with other people VERY early, and it stayed that way. None of us were maxed out in gear and we would join/create parties all the time to go farm stuff. Same in UO. From day one, you were interacting with other people (good or bad) in every aspect of the game. MMO's should have ZERO, or very little alone time in them. Goes against the idea of MM!

So I strongly disagree that MMOs are all about their end game content. MMOs should be about carving your own section of the world out and having an impact there. Archage had houses and open sea trade/combat. UO had, well, everything. Those are the only two MMOs that I really played. All of the others never really had a chance because there was never any point to them. MMOs should be more than just boss raids.

Oh ya. Eve Online. Good MMO design. I mattered in that universe. Even if it was just a very small amount. I had an impact on the landscape as a whole.

With games like WOW, you don't matter. Nothing you do changes anything. Land doesn't change hands. Guilds aren't created and destroyed. Your impact on other peoples game play. . . doesn't exist. Other than making friends there, you had zero impact on the game as a whole. Everything would be just as it is now if you had never been there. In Eve, I helped protect stations. Helped take stations. Helped patrol areas so people could mine so we could build stations. Protected/created trade routes. The time line of that universe was shifted, just a bit, because I was there. With WoW, the raid bosses are still there, every day. The landscape is the same. Everything respawns on it's timer and everyone plays with it just like they did yesterday, last week, last year. Nothing you do makes a difference!

Sure, fights like that are fun. But you can find them without the grind. LOTS of games out there where you fight cool shit in awesome ways. You just don't have to grind for it. So if you just want the fight, play those games!
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Post by Leisher »

Stranger wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:36 am I just know that this game, being that its been in development for 8 years has alot more to offer than just the leveling experience.
It hasn't though, at least not in the traditional sense. They're just adding features. It's like you're watching a movie with no ending and they just keep adding minor scenes even if they don't fit the plot or tone of the rest of the movie.

Also, I strongly disagree if you think my review was written just about the "leveling experience".

I really cannot express enough how accurate it is to compare Lost Ark to grindy mobile games. It's the exact same model. Thus, I know what's coming in the end game and I'm not interested.

Go download Archero and tell me how Lost Ark isn't the exact same thing. Sure, the graphics are WAY better (I seriously was so fucking impressed with Lost Ark's artwork) and the game play is different, but it's the same. They even have almost all the same features.
Stranger wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:36 am Didn't make it any harder but it was fun to play in a group.
Serious question. What did it add to your game? Because during my two raid boss fights with other players there was no communication, no defined roles, no assistance to one another, etc. It was just everyone spamming their attacks and healing themselves. Being in a group served no purpose other than for the monster to focus someone else for a few seconds. I'm curious if you got some other thing being in an "official" group rather than just a mob of folks who happened to be in the same place to fight a raid boss.
Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:44 pm Horrible decision when making an multiplayed game.
I would argue it's a good decision for the design of this game because they were making a cash cow, not a real MMO.
Cakedaddy wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:44 pm MMO's should have ZERO, or very little alone time in them.
I disagree with this to a point. Anywhere you go "publicly" should have other people and danger, but if you're in your home (or whatever the game calls it) you should be free to be alone. I don't need to have conversations while I'm crafting, training, or whatever.

I agree with everything else Cake said.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Stranger »

Geez. I’ve really ruffled some feathers saying to check out this free game. :roll: . Look, I’m fine with u guys not liking the game we all find things we like and dislike about all genres of games. Do I need to have u guys explain what an MMO is and isn’t. Nah. I think I know what they’re all about. Some are more single player friendly, others you will get absolutely rolled or have Lot of content not even available to u if u don’t join a guild. Sadly though most of today’s MMO are about end game and that just the truth of it. I don’t make the rules, its just the way it is.

But I can’t help but have a little chuckle when people say that I was just doing fetch quest and killing shit mindlessly and didn’t like it. Pretty much all the games are like that. Like after I kill the first boss in Borderlands why play anymore? I’m just gonna be completing silly quests and killing more shit and getting more guns to kill more shit. 🤔

Why did I play dying light after killing the first zombie. Literally the whole rest of the game was killing the same old zombies with the same exact weapons that I crafted within the first hour of the game. If we weren’t playing as a group i would’ve quit that game in the first hour. And looking back, I wouldn’t missed anything because it was the same thing the rest of the game.
WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
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Post by Leisher »

Stranger wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:32 pm Geez. I’ve really ruffled some feathers saying to check out this free game.
Nah, you're reading too much it it. I don't think anyone's feathers are ruffled. I'm simply doing my best to explain why I'm not going any farther with it despite having fun with it. Why? Because I want YOU to understand my reasoning. I don't want you think I didn't give it a fair shot or that I'm being unfair by enjoying the time I spent with it, but still uninstalled it. It's probably the most disappointed I've been about walking from a game in a long time. I really, really wanted to love it, but I cannot invest in another time sink/grind game. (Particularly not one I can't get my daily tasks done while taking a shit.)

As for the rest of your post, I admit that I do not understand your approach to gaming. Honestly, that's not a bad thing. The world is more interesting because we're not all into the same shit. However, it's so opposite from why I play games. I want the story. I want to be immersed in a world people worked very hard to build. I want to experience the events, locations, and characters they created. I want my choices to matter. Or, at the very least, be told a really good story.

You just want to kill people and break stuff. :D

I mean, if the story doesn't matter, why ever watch another movie again? They all can be simplified to one formula: Antagonist's journey to defeat the protagonist. Why listen to music? Why not just random notes played randomly on instruments while someone just says random words? Ha!
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Cakedaddy »

No ruffled feathers here either. Just talking/debating what an MMO should be.

If it's all about the end game, why have the boring stupid stuff at all!! I would say League of Legends is all about the end game too. But you didn't have to spend 2 weeks/months grinding levels to be able to enjoy it. You just go through a tutorial, and you play!

I play Borderlands and Dying light for the story, as well as for the multi experience.

I have higher expectations from MMOs than you do. Maybe it's because I've experienced the best, and now nothing else compares!

What we need is for Troy to start playing it. Then, in a couple of days he can write up a summary of exactly how to beeline to the fun stuff and exactly what we need and don't need.

I think if they got us playing together sooner, things could have been different. But as it is, it's too long of a journey to be able to play the game.
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Post by Leisher »

Cakedaddy wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:46 am Maybe it's because I've experienced the best
It really does suck that more people didn't experience UO at the height of its power.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by Troy »

Cakedaddy wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:46 am
What we need is for Troy to start playing it. Then, in a couple of days he can write up a summary of exactly how to beeline to the fun stuff and exactly what we need and don't need.

I think if they got us playing together sooner, things could have been different. But as it is, it's too long of a journey to be able to play the game.
Ha! Now I'm conflicted. I downloaded the game but I got pinged a lot over the weekend for PVP support in UO and didn't get a lot of time to play outside of those sessions.

I've watched some of the big streamers play Ark, the game looks good but it also looks so EASY. Monsters on screen, spam AOE attack, move to the next quest.

I can't quite tell but it seems like the upper level is wildly grindy. Like you have to play 2-3 years of daily quests to get max character abilities? Or maybe that's just F2P vs Paying.
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Post by Troy »

This summary rubbed me the wrong way, big time: It seems like it can become P2W whenever the devs feel like?
[Lost Ark Pay to Win Final Conclusion]

Season 0 (pre-season): No P2W

Season 1.0: Reset

Season 1.5: P2W

Season 2.0: Reset

Season 2.5: No P2W

Season 2.7 (current): 90% No P2W > 10% P2W
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Post by Leisher »

Troy wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:28 pm I can't quite tell but it seems like the upper level is wildly grindy. Like you have to play 2-3 years of daily quests to get max character abilities? Or maybe that's just F2P vs Paying.
This is why I keep comparing it to Archero and other mobile games. That is exactly the formula Lost Ark uses and what you face in their "end game".

And, of course, paying real money will reduce your waiting time, but know that they'll just keep adding new levels or worlds with an increased difficulty that can only be overcome by those daily logins/quests or more cash.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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