NFT and Blockchain games

Mostly PC, but console and mobile too
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Leisher
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NFT and Blockchain games

Post by Leisher »

Greedy scumbag companies are embracing them, calling them the future, and referring to them as "play-to-earn".

Steam has already banned them.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that with those three companies pushing for them, gamers are going to get the shaft.
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NFT and Blockchain games

Post by TheCatt »

What is a blockchain game, exactly?
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:51 pm What is a blockchain game, exactly?
I genuinely have no idea.

I also genuinely have zero idea why NFTs have any sort of value at all.
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Post by GORDON »

Leisher wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:04 pm
I also genuinely have zero idea why NFTs have any sort of value at all.
To me it feels like another 4chan "let's see if we can get idiots to believe this" joke.
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Post by Leisher »

It works for cryptocurrency...
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Post by Stranger »

Leisher wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:19 am It works for cryptocurrency...
Right, it works in the same exact way that crypto works. Personally i think its pretty cool and i do think its the future of games, like it or not.

Its funny this was brought up because i was watching a Youtube video the other day and it was talking about blockchain games and i wondered what it was too. Ended up seeing this when i did a little research.

https://www.playtoearn.online/what-are- ... ain-games/
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Post by Leisher »

Stranger wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:34 am Right, it works in the same exact way that crypto works.
So its value is completely arbitrary and fake. Granted just about everything's value is arbitrary and fake, but at least most everything is a physical entity that you can touch and feel. NFTs and the garbage they're trying to promote in these blockchain games aren't. They're as fake as their value.
Personally i think its pretty cool and i do think its the future of games, like it or not.
I read the article. What do you see that is cool about it? What does it do that doesn't already exist? This is not snark. I'm genuinely asking because maybe I am missing something.

I also completely disagree with you about it being the future of gaming "like it or not", because it's already here, it's been here, and it's failing. Give me a minute to explain...

Full disclosure, being in IT and having blockchain circling my radar for 4-5 years now, here's what I have learned or been led to know about blockchain:

Blockchain is the Common Core of logistics. Logistics is what it was created for and where it failed because it's a lot of overhead to do basically nothing that doesn't already exist and get done. Shockingly, corporations didn't want to spend additional millions to dump processes that have worked since the dawn of time, make all of their business far more public, AND lose control over those same processes. I attended a Blockchain class at Dell Technology World in 2019 and the Blockchain expert teaching the class was telling us that it's overhyped, not perfect, and ultimately most people will never need or use it.

It was literally just created around the concept of more secure transactions by sending them into the cloud where they're "approved" by tons of other computers that have nothing to do with the transaction or the company involved.

Note they say "virtually impossible" to cheat in the article you link because it is not as perfect as originally advertised. It does have flaws and the more popular it gets, the more those flaws will grow and be exploited. And that qualifier of "virtually" or "almost" is in every bit of marketing or article I've ever seen on blockchain.

Anyway, after it failed to gain traction in logistics, the creators and investors of blockchain have been looking for new ways to utilize it and make their profit. They already tried moving blockchain into IT operations, which was rejected, so now gaming is apparently the latest target.

Now I will again point out that the three scumiest and greediest companies are all for it, while the smartest minds in gaming have totally rejected it. Additionally, Tim Sweeney also rejected it, but changed Epic's stance just because Steam rejected it. (Seriously.)

So, how does it exist today? Get on your phone. The vast, vast majority are "Play-to-earn" games already. "Play-to-earn" games are just games with long fucking grinds where you can spend real money to progress a bit faster. If that's the future of gaming, then the gaming industry is doomed. Imagine going to see a movie and having to pay extra to see the last 30 minutes or to hear the audio or to have faces not be blurred. This is EXACTLY how the P2E model works. That or you're watching ads to get the additional content. Who wants this? Who wants this type of gaming on their consoles and PCs? Fucking nobody.

This is why some of the most popular mobile games that use this model are constantly running fake game play ads to trick new customers into downloading their games, offering bullshit discounts on in game purchases, offering huge perks to new and returning users, emailing past users, running surveys asking why they left, etc. Games with grinds don't keep people around forever and they're typically run by greedy motherfuckers. A new character in Archero can cost $30. That's, literally, just a skin. FOR A FREE GAME!!!! Only the ultra-rich and the ultra-stupid are paying for this shit. The best part is that most people never see what you put all that money into. I've been playing Archero for 2 years or so because the core game is fun, and because I'm a completionist who takes his time on the shitter. I've spent ZERO dollars and have received half the game's content. I have visited the game's FB page and seen that there are people WAY ahead of me because they spend money, a lot of money, to get there. However, I'm spending nothing and getting there. Also, you know how many of those people and their purchases I see in game or that have any affect on my game at all? Exactly ZERO. There is no bigger waste of money on the planet right now. Seriously, the U.S. government spends money more responsibly than people who spend their money on P2E games. And my wife is one of those people. She spends $1/month on Gardenscapes, hates herself for it, but figures it's just a buck.

The most damning thing? Nobody gets laid because they have a sword in Fortnite that nobody else does and it's unique because it has a purple hilt. Nobody cares. You can't brag about it outside of the game, and even in game you are constantly mocked like we did when people had the crazy expensive skins in LoL. Do you guys remember the asshats paying $500 for gold skins on their mechs in MWO? We brutally mocked them for being stupid, yet here we are discussing how some scumbag executives want to make the entire gaming industry P2E. (And let's be honest, P2E is P2W, which everyone hates.)

The gaming industry overtook music and movies in annual revenue without resorting to this garbage. However, it's apparently not enough money for the greedy assholes as EA and their ilk. The lie about how "companies will be giving up some of their control" is just that, a complete lie. Sure, they're giving up the opportunity to sell 1,000 people the sword with the purple hilt, but they're replacing it with the ability to sell that sword for $1,000 and sell 1,000 more with slight variations at the same price. It's a fucking scam.

The best part for them is that this will be the same for every game they make, and luckily for consumers new games never come out and old ones never lose their popularity... :roll: You're incentivizing companies to create "fake companies" to constantly release new games to sell more shit in a new fake market so they can then abandon underperforming games which effectively pulls the rug out from the value in that market.

And again, there is nothing, no ownership or power, given out in P2E games that Steam doesn't already give you via trading cards, collectibles, and their marketplace. People who go the P2E route are just going to pay for what Steam already gives us for free.

Am I wrong? Am I completely off base? Am I seeing the whole thing incorrectly? Let me know. I'm ranting, but I want to learn.

P.S. When I say "failing" for the current grind games, I mean they are falling out of favor and lose popularity rapidly.

P.S.S. Steam already has these games, but might not realize it. Shakes and Fidget, Firestone, etc. are essentially P2E (or P2W), as they are grind games, but because everything is also free, perhaps they avoid the distinction?
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Post by Stranger »

Ok, i don't know even a sliver of what you know about the blockchain so you probably won't learn anything from me. What you say makes 100% sense and makes me regret even saying what i said earlier, i don't think i really meant that.. I hate mobile games, i hate clicker games, all that shit i never touch. BUT.... here's how i look at it.

We all play games for entertainment. Some free to play, some are a one time payment, some subscription based. They all have some sort of monetization. In the simplest form of thinking, if i can play something and possibly earn something of actual value for it and sell that item, then that's a bonus that no other game i've ever played has offered. I played WoW for over 2 years now, payed $15 a month to do that, that's almost $400 i spent to play one fucking video game! and i'm a cheap ass mofo when it comes to games. Now, if i played that game and somewhere along the way i was lucky enough to come across some sweet ass weapon that had an actual value to it that would be fucking sweet! Now, i know people do level up accounts on WOW and sell them to people but that shits against the TOS and i would never do that. Yeah, sure that weapon is just pixels on a screen, but some dumbass would buy that fucking thing, doesn't have to be me or you but someone will do it. Now i'm sure these games don't exactly work like that, its probably grind a 100 hours and get something worth 10 cents.

It's like those digital sports cards that you can buy, they are nothing more than a sportscenter highlight. But they would only produce so many of them in this blockchain infrastructure and creating a demand for them. So people bought packs of "cards" and if you got a rare one then you could sell that thing to someone whose willing to do so. So whats the difference between that and a real physical sports card? just because i can hold it doesn't really make a difference right? Its a piece of cardboard with a picture of some dude on it!

Plus i'm pretty sure the blockchain system can be used in other game type systems too. Last Christmas my brother was talking about this horseracing ownership game, i can't remember what it was called. But the whole idea was, every so often this company would drop so many horses that could be purchased and then you would own that horse. There were better breeds or bloodlines of horses that would be better horses and you knew those would be worth some money. You would race those horses, bet on them if you wish and basically level them up and then sell them to the right buyer if you wish. We considered going in on owning a horse just for the fun of it to see what it would be like. Maybe we would've been suckers and our money was just getting thrown away but the entertainment value of it sounded really fun.

So maybe i'm looking at the whole thing wrong. Maybe its idiots like me that are what make money for the other people that know more about this stuff than i. But i just look at it as a way to earn something for doing something that i may enjoy doing.

I don't know if anything of what i said even touches on anything you brought up. I do get it, there are greedy ass companies in gaming everywhere. But lets be honest, every company is out to get your dollar.
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Post by TheCatt »

So... it's pokemon cards, but different?
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Post by Stranger »

Leisher wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:58 pm P.S.S. Steam already has these games, but might not realize it. Shakes and Fidget, Firestone, etc. are essentially P2E (or P2W), as they are grind games, but because everything is also free, perhaps they avoid the distinction?
So are there items you can earn in those games that you can sell? like legit, you get an item and there is a place to trade that item in for crypto?? I always though those were just F2P with microtransactions not P2E.
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Post by Stranger »

TheCatt wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:14 pm So... it's pokemon cards, but different?
I guess it could be, right? like think if you played Pokemon Go and somewhere got a super rare pet or whatever they're called. Then you sell if for some bitcoin.. That would be cool as fuck. You might see me going around playing that then.

I don't think you can do that in Pokemon Go as far as i know.
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Post by TheCatt »

Stranger wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:26 pm
TheCatt wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:14 pm So... it's pokemon cards, but different?
I guess it could be, right? like think if you played Pokemon Go and somewhere got a super rare pet or whatever they're called. Then you sell if for some bitcoin.. That would be cool as fuck. You might see me going around playing that then.

I don't think you can do that in Pokemon Go as far as i know.
I have seen people selling pokemon go pokemons on eBay, so close. And people definitely sell the cards.
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Post by Cakedaddy »

This stuff has been around for a looooong time. I'd say, trading (sports) cards were the fist I came across. What makes a card worth more than the paper it's printed on? People want it.

It's been in games, at least since UO. My wife and I made thousands selling in game crap. From houses, to gold/resources, to ride-able llamas. We bought an account for $600 for its houses. We sold ONE of the houses for $600 that week. Kept the best ones, and then sold the rest over time. At the time, Richard Garriot was bragging about how UO gold had a stronger exchange rate than some developed countries. I think UO was the last MMO to allow out of game transactions. At one point, I was considering selling my account so I could buy a jet ski. I didn't do it. Was still way too into playing the game.

My son used to get/buy gun skins for Counter Strike. There was (and may still be) a forum you could use to trade them for real money which I'm pretty sure is against the TOS, but people still do it.

I bought a few skins for Rust hoping they go up later like some have. I think Troy has one that he bought for $50 and now sells for 100-200.

Granted, none of those are NFTs or whatever, but it was still real money spent on virtual assets. And those assets will have value, only for as long as the game is played. I remember us justifying LoL skins because we felt 'some' obligation to support the game we were spending so much time playing.

I really liked our UO gig. LOVED playing the game, and earned money doing it. We played for 7 years (or was it 5) at $30/month (plus a second phone line before broadband) and we covered all of those costs, and more, selling shit on ebay. Remember our first small house we placed? Put it up against a mountain so we could mine. Then it kept getting hacked so we never used it? When they opened up the expansion T2A, it was right next to a gate way. HEAVY in game traffic. Made MILLIONS of gold. Much of which was sold on ebay on a regular basis. It was awesome! Was this pay to win? I'd argue no. It was pay to progress faster. But as you know, there were skill/stat caps, weapons were only 'so' good. So, you might beat me to max everything by buying gold, but eventually, everyone was on even ground.

That being said, I HATE the pay to win setup 98% of mobile games have.

So, I'm not sure NFT will be bad for games. Virtual items have been traded/demanded for years. That's not an evil EA thing. That's players wanting to play. But again, making me buy NFTs or I can't play the game. . no. Wasn't Star Wars Battlefield like that? You didn't get everything unless you bought boxes with random assets.
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Post by Leisher »

Well, there are already NFT scams.

Back to this thread I completely forgot about...
So maybe i'm looking at the whole thing wrong. Maybe its idiots like me that are what make money for the other people that know more about this stuff than i. But i just look at it as a way to earn something for doing something that i may enjoy doing.
No, not wrong, just ill informed as a consumer.

Cake's post does a really good job of explaining that buying and selling virtual items have been in game for a long time. Cake has sold stuff in UO, Troy and I have sold skins in Rust, Catt sells trading cards and whatnot on Steam, I had a friend who sold one of the most expensive accounts ever sold on Everquest (H. King's former husband), and so on and so forth. Hell, there was/is an entire industry dedicated to selling virtual currency, which is where the term "gold farmers" comes from.

There are tons of other games too, but they're all typically MMOs. People were making a living in Second Life, and still might be? I saw a streamer who was making lots of real life cash running a casino in GTA V. The game I consider the actual king of this topic is EVE Online. People have lots tens of thousands of dollars in REAL world money/value because of massive battles in that game. (Seriously, some of the stories are simply epic.)

All of this was done without corporations being involved. That irritated them and ignited their greed genes, like Congresspeople seeing money they want to tax. And these greedy cunts are the corporations that have been doing more and more shady things in the industry:
-Starting GoFundMe or Kickstarter campaigns for new games even though they're an actual studio with funding. -Releasing games that aren't finished.
-Pretty much everything Epic does...
-Releasing games that are "done", but if you want to finish the actual story, you need to pay more money.
-Avoiding the need to release a new game by simply propping up their existing title with half baked DLCs (the whole Season Pass bullshit). Imagine if Ford sold new cars without the ability to turn and asked you to pay an additional 50% of the retail price of the original car to get those "features".

Anyway, the majority of these shitty tactics are done by the same companies and the ones excited about NFTs in gaming are definitely on this list.

This is all going to be about releasing as little substantial content as possible (reducing their need and cost for talented programmers), and instead releasing fluff like skins (created by cheap graphic artists). The minute players are "bored" with a game, it'll be dumped for a sequel or something else, which will destroy the value of the prior game's market. That's exactly what has been going on with the casual/mobile market. Now these asshats want to bring that to consoles and PCs.

As consumers, it's FINE to spend money on a skin. However, we need to be pushing back on all the negative trends like half finished games, being charged more for what should have been in the original release, early access and fund raising done by major studios, P2W, and so on. Corporations should be able to maximize profit, but not by killing the industry.
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