Those Big, Evil Corporations

Comment threads from front page posts.
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Post by GORDON »

From here.

This should be a fun one. Would be more fun if I could open registration. (edit-I just opened posting access in this Feedback forum. Just try to avoid viagra spam if you see it before an admin does.)

And of course, all of my arguments about the nature of business are moot when those businesses get government hand-outs. That throws everything off.




Edited By GORDON on 1255615082
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Post by TPRJones »

There are two sorts of people that despise corporations: 1) fools who are ignorant about how our economy works, or 2) communists. These are not mutually exclusive catagories.

It's nice to know, though, that in the long run entropy prevails, and fools like these destroy themselves and their societies. You can only keep things running illogically for so long before it all falls apart. And what follows can only be an imporvement.
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Post by GORDON »

I don't even understand the idea of despising a corporation... a corporation isn't some self-actualized entity, it is just a bunch of people trying to sell a product and make money. How eeeeevil...

"Evil" comes into it when the government gives them a monopoly in a market, and the consumers no longer have a choice if it is something they want like, say, electricity to their homes. But I lay the "evil" on the government, for that, not the corporation.




Edited By GORDON on 1255615318
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Post by Troy »

Why are you guys being so blanket about it? Unless this is a thread about the IDEA of a corporation, in which case I'm all for it, I like the IDEA of corporations. It does not mean I like ALL corporations.

Let's just pull down some random threads about corporations that are ranted about on these forums, EA, Utilities, Financial, Google, Microsoft, the list goes on.

I mean, the idea and design of a large corporation is great, as long as it doesn't deal in scummy tactics (Price fixing, Buying up and stifling innovation, Putting out a product before completely researching side effects)

Even your example about paying managers. Yes, under under a model of perfect competition/information, that totally makes sense. But most open positions aren't posted, and go to friends, and friends of friends. It's not inherently bad, and usually isn't, but it certainly gives way to the possibility of one big clusterfuck. (see: financial system, i.e. Six Degrees of who worked at Fanny and Freddy)

I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.


Edit:

Oh, to be clear, I agree with almost everything on the front page, I just hate the black and white of it all, shades of gray is better.




Edited By Troy on 1255617370
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Post by Troy »

Oops.

Fifth paragraph, second sentence, about = on
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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote:Oh, to be clear, I agree with almost everything on the front page, I just hate the black and white of it all, shades of gray is better.

Several times when writing the post I started going down a "shades of gray" tangent... then stopping myself. I wanted to keep the idea clear and concise... it was going to be long enough as it was.

That being said, most of my "shades of gray tangents" came down to the government being evil, not the corporation. I was going to write about "But then the corporation lobbies Washington and all of a sudden there is a new law against your using product X or service Y because it is bad for that company." Well, then, who is evil... the corporation for trying to buy a politician, or the politician who accepted the bribe? Corporations, like every other member of an economy, need to do what is in their own best interests. It is our elected officials who are supposed to be looking out for us. And we are the idiots for elected them if we get hoodwinked, and it is our job to elect someone else next time.

And see, down this tangent we get into... what if the entire governmental system is broken? Too many sidelines. I kept it pure. I'm glad you agree that I succeeded in that. This feedback forum is for discussing the shades of gray.




Edited By GORDON on 1255617986
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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote:I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.
Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?
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Post by Troy »

GORDON wrote:
Troy wrote:I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.

Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?

EA

Edit: That was just the one that was off the top of my head.

But isn't this all going to be chicken and egg stuff? What comes first, the army of lobbyist, or the government action?




Edited By Troy on 1255618738
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Post by GORDON »

Troy wrote:
GORDON wrote:
Troy wrote:I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.
Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?
EA
And your example of them harming the consumer? I think I know where you are going, I just want it laid out so we are on the same page.
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Post by Troy »

GORDON wrote:
Troy wrote:
GORDON wrote:
Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?

EA

And your example of them harming the consumer? I think I know where you are going, I just want it laid out so we are on the same page.

My gut reaction was them falling under the "stifling" innovation" side.

If you really want me to do some research on a specific example, it'll have to be during lunch when I have more than 5 minutes a post!


Edit: (Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin, Maxis, DICE )




Edited By Troy on 1255619002
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Post by TPRJones »

So, are you implying that the consumers that continue to fund EA have no choice? They're somehow forced to buy EA's prodcuts and support EA's actions?
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Post by Troy »

TPRJones wrote:So, are you implying that the consumers that continue to fund EA have no choice? They're somehow forced to buy EA's prodcuts and support EA's actions?
Sure, I want a NFL game that isn't made by EA.

That actually has my team in it.
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Post by Malcolm »

(*)The Elitists are those who think regular people are not good enough or smart enough or enlightened enough to make their own, correct decisions. (**)Elitists think there needs to be more government, with the "Right People in Charge," to make more, correct decisions for the masses.


Based on (*), the electoral college is elitist.

There are grown adults who wouldn't be able to survive w\o someone telling them what to think. Watch one of the fifty episodes of "Cops" available on a regular basis. Or any one of the several billion reality shows. Fuck, look who we elect to D.C. There's no way that cadre of fuckwits was put into power by a society full of citizens that made the correct choice.

(**) is pushed by people that believe any single individual can contribute positively (whatever that means) to society. The problem is that what they consider to be "positive" is secretly code for "no one gets angry or agitated." It's the belief that everyone needs to be cut down to the lowest common denominator so everyone's equal.
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Post by Malcolm »

Troy wrote:
TPRJones wrote:So, are you implying that the consumers that continue to fund EA have no choice? They're somehow forced to buy EA's prodcuts and support EA's actions?
Sure, I want a NFL game that isn't made by EA.

That actually has my team in it.
Want != need != forced.
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Post by Malcolm »

GORDON wrote:
Troy wrote:I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.
Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?
Google.
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Post by GORDON »

Malcolm wrote:
GORDON wrote:
Troy wrote:I guess my question is this. Are we ignoring all the bitching done about every other forum about certain companies, and giving them a blanket yay/nay. Or are we willing to take into account that there is such a thing as an irresponsible corporation that purposefully negatively affects the consumer, a bad apple, if you will.
Can you provide an example of such a company that isn't being propped up by the government?
Google.
In what way is Google... harming consumers?

Regarding Bullfrog, Westwood, Origin, and Maxis, who forced them to sell out to EA?

I think the only thing EA did was alienate consumers like me in order to... I don't know... attract others? How are their numbers? Are they putting themselves out of business by embracing DRM, the only issue that has kept me from purchasing EA games for the last couple years?
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Post by TPRJones »

Troy wrote:
TPRJones wrote:So, are you implying that the consumers that continue to fund EA have no choice? They're somehow forced to buy EA's prodcuts and support EA's actions?

Sure, I want a NFL game that isn't made by EA.

That actually has my team in it.

Well, that would be the fault of the NFL for providing EA with a monopoly on video games featuring their teams. If anything you should be mad at the NFL for that, not EA.

As to your definition of being "forced", well ... let's just leave it at I disagree, and would say you are choosing to support EA with your patronage.




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Post by Malcolm »

In what way is Google... harming consumers?

Google is interested in making sure that you have no privacy. Ever. Again.
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Post by TheCatt »

Malcolm wrote:
In what way is Google... harming consumers?
Google is interested in making sure that you have no privacy. Ever. Again.
Not aware I'm forced to use them. Except by the fact that all other search providers suck donkey.
It's not me, it's someone else.
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Post by Malcolm »

TheCatt wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
In what way is Google... harming consumers?
Google is interested in making sure that you have no privacy. Ever. Again.
Not aware I'm forced to use them. Except by the fact that all other search providers suck donkey.
It's as closed to a monopoly as I could think of. But yeah, you've got alternatives. Shitty alternatives.

Hell, my work's web filter actually blocks bing.com because it think it's a gambling website.
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