The UFO thread

Stuff we should click on.  Be sure to state Not Work Safe, if applicable.  KTHX.
TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

biofuel?



Edited By TPRJones on 1404835404
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Leisher wrote:
Vince wrote:
Leisher wrote:Oh, and let's not forget that everything we "knew" about what life needs to exist has changed in the past 5 years. That means, you might not even need an Earth-like planet to sustain life.

But we aren't talking about life. We're talking about intelligent life and civilizations. And the requirements for those haven't changed much. To my point, in order to achieve civilization as near as we can tell a required component is the ability to make and control fire.

I assume you don't believe there is any other intelligent life out there other than us?

I'm not being condescending when I ask this, but is this opinion based on science or religion? I just want to know how to debate it.

Because your whole statement there is anti-science. It's basically the same stance as Al Gore saying "the debate is over".

But hey, let's have fun and say you're right and our experiences here on Earth have to be matched EXACTLY for intelligent life to exist:

There are between 8.8 and 40 billion Earth-like planets in the Milky Way alone. Now boost that number by the number of galaxies in the known universe, which is about 100-200 billion. (That measurement is just based on what we can see from Earth.)

The numbers are there. Each one representing another chance for life to evolve. That's indisputable, and it's a LOT of chances.

What, scientifically speaking, allows you to rubber stamp the whole "life on other planets" question with a big NO?

Sorry, I had written a long response that got eaten by the browser.

To recap what got eaten, the odds of there being other intelligent life out there does not conflict with my beliefs. It's just the more that I see that made life as we know it possible here on Earth the less common I end up believing we are. The astronomical odds of our magnetic field and our moon are quite staggering in and of themselves.

Not that I think it's impossible. I just think our entire race will likely have died out before we could come up with any proof of them, much less make contact.




Edited By Vince on 1404837534
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Might be an interesting exercise to come up with the most complex machine we've built without the use of metal or fired clay or anything requiring fire.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

The astronomical odds of our magnetic field and our moon are quite staggering in and of themselves.

When I think of all the other places shit like that has failed, where some minor fuck up has destroyed the habitability of some globe, you figure that somewhere, some day, one of them will hit the jackpot. It won't be often. But as long as it's "about one out of every..." it doesn't matter how the second half of that is finished. Any finite number always means there's going to be more than one. A fraction of infinity is still fucking huge.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

True Malcom, but time and space are not infinite. That kind of screwed up a lot of scientists and led to a lot of reluctance to accept the big bang theory. They could always rely on "with infinite possibilities, it's inevitable that this would happen."

With the big bang theory, that reliance disappeared. I still chuckle when the news stories come out saying "Scientists say the Universe not as old as previously thought". I just imagine a bunch of scientists saying, "son of a bitch."
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

The universe is expanding. There will be more space as time goes on. When time checks out of existence, we'll have long since vanished.
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Troy
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Post by Troy »

Malcolm wrote:The universe is expanding. There will be more space as time goes on. When time checks out of existence, we'll have long since vanished.

Wrong. The Imperium of Man, led by their God-Leader Emperor Troy, will continue on. Guided in navigating the cosomos by his ever present warp beacon, a testament to his silent sacrifice on his
golden Earth-throne.


Wait that's the plot to Warhammer 40k.




Edited By Troy on 1404842638
TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

True Malcom, but time and space are not infinite.

True about time, but not about space. Current most-popular theories posit an infinite expanding universe. We can only see a certain part of it due to the limited past time and the speed of light, but that doesn't mean the rest of the infinity doesn't exist. Because there are likely an infinite number of worlds that would be friendly to life, I don't doubt that there are an infinite number of intelligent alien races out there.

The question isn't are there aliens, it's are they common enough to have any others within a particular reasonably nearby portion of the infinity of the universe so that we might possibly one day have some hope of some sort of interaction. If intelligent life is unlikely enough that there's only one in a roughly 13 billion light-year radius sphere of space, then we will absolutely never have any contact. Might as well be one per universe, then. If the odds are more like one per parsec, then we'd have seen fossil radio broadcasts all over the place.

How to narrow that range of possibility down is the real problem.




Edited By TPRJones on 1404842622
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Some animal life on this planet could be intelligent, they're just choosing not to talk to us or are doing it in a way we're clueless about.



Edited By Malcolm on 1404843150
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Post by Vince »

Malcolm wrote:Some animal life on this planet could be intelligent, they're just choosing not to talk to us or are doing it in a way we're clueless about.
I've always loved that argument.

"Dolphins are as smart as us and could have their own language. We're just not smart enough to figure out their language."

"If they're that smart, why do we have to figure out their language? Why aren't they learning English?"
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Maybe they don't want to talk with us because they've been able to listen to and understand us for a bit. Additionally, "intelligence" has no bearing on the sounds your vocal apparati are capable of producing.
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Post by GORDON »

Maybe trees scream when we cut them down we just can't hear it.



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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Malcolm wrote:Maybe they don't want to talk with us because they've been able to listen to and understand us for a bit. Additionally, "intelligence" has no bearing on the sounds your vocal apparati are capable of producing.
Then you'd think they would be smart enough to know what tuna nets were and stay the hell away from them.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Vince wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Maybe they don't want to talk with us because they've been able to listen to and understand us for a bit. Additionally, "intelligence" has no bearing on the sounds your vocal apparati are capable of producing.

Then you'd think they would be smart enough to know what tuna nets were and stay the hell away from them.

You'd think that human pedestrians would know that moving traffic is in the street and crosswalks are the approved spots to cross, too. Perhaps it's how the dolphins deal with their less clever brethren.




Edited By Malcolm on 1404853611
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince
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Post by Vince »

Good point.

"Shut up Peta. We're only weeding the stupid ones out of the gene pool."
"... and then I was forced to walk the Trail of Tears." - Elizabeth Warren
Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Vince wrote:Good point.

"Shut up Peta. We're only weeding the stupid ones out of the gene pool."
Hitchhiker's movie missed a golden opportunity.
Diogenes of Sinope: "It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours."
Arnold Judas Rimmer, BSC, SSC: "Better dead than smeg."
Vince
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Post by Vince »

I was talking about this with a coworker and "a dolphin caught in a tuna net" has become a euphemism for stupid people.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

Abduction caught on tape.

I have not watched the video yet, but I'm certain it's not what they think.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Absolutely fake. Stupidly so. They weren't even trying.

Most likely a very lame attempt to make a viral video that will end up being a promotion for some movie or other.




Edited By TPRJones on 1415553584
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

WTF? Just watched it. Completely fake.

Why the fuck was that a Yahoo headline last night?

I wonder if this is going to be a marketing thing.
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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