Gun Control catch all

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TheCatt
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Gun Control catch all

Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pm That strict gun laws are also ineffective? Or perhaps they prove that people screaming about our culture being the root issue are right?
Their deaths are on a different order of magnitude. Most people would call that effective.

If you want extreme gun control, look at New Zealand: 0.24 vs 4.90 for US.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:57 pm Their deaths are on a different order of magnitude. Most people would call that effective.
Without context of everything else about their society, it's meaningless. The only people that would call it effective are those who are anti-gun. Ask Chicago.

And I say that as someone who is in favor of far more rigid laws about gun ownership. I think people should be allowed to own any gun, but not any citizen should be allowed to own a gun.

I'm all for longer wait times, more in depth background checks, sharing data between states and law enforcement agencies to get a clearer picture, law enforcement being notified when someone illegally tries to buy a gun, permanent banning of owning firearms for anyone convicted of certain crimes/anyone found to be suicidal/anyone that's bipolar (or other severe mental conditions that might trigger a violent act)/etc., the permanent removal of gun selling licenses and jail time for anyone caught selling guns without adhering to these strict standards, and so on and so forth.

However, if you clear all those hurdles, you can own an M-50 if you want. "But why do you need it in 2021!?" Why the fuck not? You don't need cable, booze, cigarettes, weed, extreme sports, and a billion other things that can result in you or others being hurt, but we're not stopping that stuff. "But someone could take it from you and use it to commit a crime!" And they could do the same thing with my car, my internet connection, my phone, my knives, a farmer's pile of manure, and so on. Hell, by that logic, let's ban women going anywhere alone and make them cover up from head to toe because "someone might rape them".

Mini qualifier rant over...

And where I was going with the French thing is that there are other factors leading to mass shootings and the abuse of firearms.

-Our suicide rate via guns is higher. Maybe that has nothing to do with the availability of guns, but a bigger statement about our culture, societal pressures, lack of proper mental care, etc.?
-Our mass shootings are higher. Maybe that has nothing to do with the availability of guns, but a bigger statement about social media (and the extremely negative it is having on society), the MSM glorifying the shooters, societal pressures, lack of proper mental care, etc.?
-Our shootings rate is higher. Maybe that has nothing to do with the availability of guns...wait...ok, this probably does have something to do with the availability of illegal guns, which laws against law abiding citizens will not do shit about, but also has a lot more to do with our society, broken legal system, the plight of the lower class, etc.

Gun violence is the cough of someone with a cold, not the cold itself. It's a symptom, and if you treat it, you're still going to be left with the actual disease.
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Post by GORDON »

I bet the french have more acid attacks.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

Fauci thinks guns are a public health issue.

Weird how our food being poison isn't...

Latest CA shooter shouldn't have legally had his guns.

This is insane! It's almost like criminals just ignore laws!
“Every record been destroyed or falsified, books rewritten, pictures repainted, statues, street building renamed, every date altered. The process is continuing day by day. History stops. Nothing exists except endless present in which the Party is right.”
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:06 am Latest CA shooter shouldn't have legally had his guns.

This is insane! It's almost like criminals just ignore laws!
So... we should ban all guns?
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Post by GORDON »

Just as banning cars is the solution to stop drunk drivers.

:-D
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:21 am Just as banning cars is the solution to stop drunk drivers.

:-D
Shit, even the sober drivers suck... I just drove I-95 to FL and back.

What's with people thinking that 3 lanes means just sit your slow ass in the middle lane, instead of the right lane?
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Post by GORDON »

Right? And in Florida.... truck drivers driving over the pavement paint, and under the overhead signs, that state, "Absolutely no trucks this lane."

I really hate fucking truck drivers.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:13 am
Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:06 am Latest CA shooter shouldn't have legally had his guns.

This is insane! It's almost like criminals just ignore laws!
So... we should ban all guns?
According to folks like Pete Buttigieg that is the ultimate goal. The flaw in their logic continues to be that the only people who adhere to gun laws are law-abiding citizens.
TheCatt wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 am What's with people thinking that 3 lanes means just sit your slow ass in the middle lane, instead of the right lane?
I encounter the same thing driving to and returning from Cleveland on the weekends.

"86 miles to my exit, so let me just park here in the middle lane doing exactly the speed limit."

Worse are the people who do similar things in the left lane.
GORDON wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:08 am I really hate fucking truck drivers.
I mean, there are other options for fucking...
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am According to folks like Pete Buttigieg that is the ultimate goal. The flaw in their logic continues to be that the only people who adhere to gun laws are law-abiding citizens.
Counterpoint: New Zealand.
Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 am Worse are the people who do similar things in the left lane.
True. But I find the middle lane parkers are much more prevalent. And you end up with this weird situation where the fast cars zip around the right lanes to get through.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am Counterpoint: New Zealand.
That's quite a broad counterpoint. Try explaining in more detail. What exactly is "New Zealand" a counter point to in my statement about Pete Buttigieg?

New Zealand has pretty strict gun laws and actively confiscates guns from registered owners. In fact, they have passed stricter regulations on gun owners in 2020 and again in 2021 that are moving them closer to no citizens being allowed to own guns.
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Post by TheCatt »

Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:50 am Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am
Counterpoint: New Zealand.
That's quite a broad counterpoint. Try explaining in more detail. What exactly is "New Zealand" a counter point to in my statement about Pete Buttigieg?
You said the flaw was gun-law adherence. If you get rid of the guns, adherence doesn't matter. They are gone. NZ has gotten rid of a lot of guns.
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Post by GORDON »

They also don't have gang problems.
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Post by Leisher »

TheCatt wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:54 am
Leisher wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:50 am Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:33 am
Counterpoint: New Zealand.
That's quite a broad counterpoint. Try explaining in more detail. What exactly is "New Zealand" a counter point to in my statement about Pete Buttigieg?
You said the flaw was gun-law adherence. If you get rid of the guns, adherence doesn't matter. They are gone. NZ has gotten rid of a lot of guns.
In the article I pulled up, NZ officials believe 170,000 "legal until the latest legislation" guns are still out there. (Not counting the ones still legal.) That is a whole lot of guns that have never and will never be used in a crime, but their politicians are making those gun owners into criminals by treating all NZers like criminals.

To contrast the U.S. has an estimated (there are no accurate numbers anywhere as nobody bothered tracking them) 393 million legally owned guns. Imagine how many are illegally owned that would not be subject to any gun laws. As Gordon points out, NZ has nothing in their culture like our gangs. They don't have an entire genre of music or a subculture making brandishing guns "the right thing to do" to protect your image or get respect. They don't have entire cities where folks think street crime is a legit way to make ends meet. They don't have a MSM who crawl over their own mothers to publish the name, picture, and manifesto of whatever scumbag just pulled off a mass shooting, but can barely be bothered to even mention the victims, unless they're writing an anti-gun propaganda piece. Their country didn't dismantle their health care system due to some abuses in the past rather than fixing it. They are also an island that doesn't have a massive neighbor to their south sending people across daily with whatever they can carry, which includes illegal guns.

But hey, what the fuck do I know? I mean, the government banned drugs and they won that battle, so...
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Post by TheCatt »

https://www.wral.com/in-major-shift-nc- ... /19636502/

NC looking to get rid of pistol permits. I agree that they are basically worthless. I don’t love the private buyer loophole for background checks though.
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Leisher
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Post by Leisher »

Yeah, not in favor of making it easier to buy a gun via loopholes or without proper checks.
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Post by GORDON »

"It's a Constitutional right, though. Can't require an ID to vote buy a gun."

~TheCatt.

And checkmate. :-D
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Post by Leisher »

GORDON wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:44 am "It's a Constitutional right, though. Can't require an ID to vote buy a gun."

~TheCatt.

And checkmate. :-D
If you were being serious I'd have you committed...if asylums still existed...

Prove who you are, that you are mentally and physically competent, that you are a law abiding citizen, that you are educated, and that you take the responsibility seriously. Same as how I feel about voting, except for the physical part.

I really don't feel like that's too much to ask for either "right".
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Post by GORDON »

No, Catt was saying the other day that the guaranteed right to vote shouldn't require an ID, but I'm sure he doesn't feel that way about gun ownership, a guaranteed right.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

GORDON wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:44 am "It's a Constitutional right, though. Can't require an ID to vote buy a gun."

~TheCatt.

And checkmate. :-D
"well-regulated milita"

Granted, that phrase didn't quite mean the same thing as it does today, but still.
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