The Republican Party

[Cakedaddy]

Leisher wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:33 pm
Yeah, I genuinely do not know how a sane and logical adult can look at the events of Jan 6th, especially how they have been reported, and say this was a blatant coup attempt.

I mean, they broke into Congress and multiple people died before it was stopped, right at the door where the representatives were voting to ratify an election? Not sure how this tracks.

So, say they made it all the way in. They disrupted the vote. Congress couldn't ratify so Trump stay pres? For what. Another 20 minutes until security is dispatched in force and they are all removed? This was a disruptive mob. Nothing more. They served no purpose and were not, in any way, a threat to democracy, national security, or anything else. They could have bombed the building killing everyone inside, and nothing would have changed. Things would have been delayed while the mess is cleaned up. But nothing would have changed. Trump could have even tried to make a bunch of rule changes declaring himself king. Wouldn't have mattered. I mean, in what scenario does Trump actually stay president based on the actions of that mob? Or any other significant change to the way things happen here?

[Troy]

Seems like you guys are giving your opinions a huge benefit of hindsight here. It didn't work, but they certainly tried. You can't look back and be like, "ha-ha, they were just playing around, what an overreaction". They killed people, and broke into offices full of classified documents.

A mob runs on momentum, if the momentum hadn't been stopped, who knows? Fuck em, I hope the shits are enjoying prison these days.

[TheCatt]

Seems like you guys are giving your opinions a huge benefit of hindsight here. It didn't work, but they certainly tried. You can't look back and be like, "ha-ha, they were just playing around, what an overreaction". They killed people, and broke into offices full of classified documents.

People always do that.

It's like someone forgets their parking brake, and car rolls down the road, and harmessly into a field or something. Versus, someone forgets their parking brake, and it rolls down the hill into a playground full of children, killing and maiming several.

People ALWAYS judge based on outcomes. But they shouldn't, always.

[Troy]

It's always something benign until it's not. So many examples:

Burglar's are just ringing your door and looking in your window - until you aren't home
Russia was just "helping the people of the Donbas" until they weren't
A guy is just joking about asking to sleep with a woman... unless she's interested... or unable to say no

You get the picture.

[GORDON]

You can't call the burglary a rapist until he rapes. The country was in zero danger if being overthrown on January 6. It was not an attempted insurrection any more than swatting a mosquito on your arm is an attempt to make them extinct.

There are those who talk like it was, all dramatic and shit.

The USA is not that building.

[Troy]

You can't call the burglary a rapist until he rapes. The country was in zero danger if being overthrown on January 6. It was not an attempted insurrection any more than swatting a mosquito on your arm is an attempt to make them extinct.

There are those who talk like it was, all dramatic and shit.

The USA is not that building.

All of the would-be-insurrectionist weren't charged and in jail for what they tried to do, as far as I know.

They were charged and convicted with assaulting law enforcement officers and related offenses. Which they DID. Killed one.

[Leisher]

Yeah, I genuinely do not know how a sane and logical adult can look at the events of Jan 6th, especially how they have been reported, and say this was a blatant coup attempt.

I mean, they broke into Congress and multiple people died before it was stopped, right at the door where the representatives were voting to ratify an election? Not sure how this tracks.

Yes, Karens. As I have to tell Catt all the time, don't get hung up on semantics.

There was no plan for any sort of actual and/or legal coup. There were no weapons. Most of the people in this "mob" had no idea there was anything even remotely coordinated about it. Literally, not one single person actually had the wisdom to understand there was no endgame where they "win".

Antifa did better organizing their violence in 2020 than these "proud boys" did on Jan 6th.

What exactly did they think was going to be accomplished? How can any logical thinking adult look at these events and think, "This was a well coordinated assault and our country was truly in peril!" Anyone who knows anything about how the government works knows that our government was not in any sort of danger that day. Some officials were (not AOC despite her claims), sure, but the overall government? Not even a little bit.

That fact being ignored in all the reporting by certain MSM outlets and in random talking heads' rants about Jan 6th says a lot. Particularly when these same people refuse to say the same thing about the riots in 2020.

This seems like a good place to point out that government officials were openly advocating for violence during the riots in 2020, have openly advocated violence or confrontations that can lead to violence against government officials, and that the riots in 2020 led to two "zones" within U.S. borders that claimed to no longer be a part of the U.S.

Somehow that stuff is all fine.

These are the same people who are telling us that Jan 6th was the worst thing ever. I have heard adults say this was worse than 9/11. These are the same people claiming "10 people died that day." The NY Times disputes the findings of the bipartisan Jan 6th committee.

Ashli Babbitt and Brian Sicknick, who died a day later, were absolutely victims of Jan 6th. The woman "crushed" in the video you posted died of an overdose. Two other guys in the mob died of a heartattack and a stroke. All the other officers died of suicide in the days and months after the attack. And before you go politicizing their deaths, cops are already among the professions with the highest suicide rates, and those rates skyrockets after...any guesses?...the riots of 2020.

Weird how there were never any hearings about those riots in the D held Congress. In fact, the only trial I remember occurring because of the riots in 2020 was that of...what's that dumb kid's name who shot three people in self defense while he was out there pretending to be Batman?

Have you ever seen front page photos of the people who died during the 2020 riots? How about a special website setup by the FBI seeking civilian help with identifying pictures of the rioters?

This is a cop being mortally crushed.

I never said violence didn't take place that day. However, it is literally just a mob rioting. "Riot" being the word the BBC and USA Today still use to describe the event, not a "coup attempt".

You can't look back and be like, "ha-ha, they were just playing around, what an overreaction".

Nobody is doing that. (Nobody here anyway, I'm sure there are idiots out there doing that.) That's you applying an opinion to us that we are not expressing. Jan 6th sucked and never should have happened, but it has definitely been politically weaponized. It was sold as far more of a danger to our country than it actually was, and shame on the people who buy into it because they apparently skipped civics class.

All of the would-be-insurrectionist weren't charged and in jail for what they tried to do, as far as I know.

Based on their sentences, I'd say they are being given very politically motivated sentences, and honestly, as I already said above, I'm fine with that. Fuck 'em (another thing I've already said previously about these people).

TLDR:
1. Jan 6th was not the well executed coup attempt many try to paint it as for political reasons.
2. The riots in 2020 were more costly, killed more people, but we've oddly never held any hearings or tried to find anyone responsible for them.
3. All the people in jail for Jan 6th deserve to be there, but let's stop pretending they had any idea what they were doing, had any power to really affect our government, or had more than three IQ points in the entire crowd.

[Troy]

You keep mentioning that nobody was arrested for the 2020 riots, but a cursory google shows thousands?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sc ... ce-arrests

Police Arrested More Than 11,000 People At Protests Across The US
BuzzFeed News reached out to 30 local police departments — including Minneapolis, New York City, and Los Angeles — seeking their official numbers. Here’s what we found.

[Troy]

A thousand Jan. 6 rioters were arrested too. Which seems about right - they decided to do their rioting in a building with a fuck-ton of cameras, and were eventually tacked down by highly motivated government law enforcement officers after killing and hurting a bunch of them.

This all just seems like:

[Leisher]

A thousand Jan. 6 rioters were arrested too. Which seems about right - they decided to do their rioting in a building with a fuck-ton of cameras, and were eventually tacked down by highly motivated government law enforcement officers after killing and hurting a bunch of them.

Not the same. I know rioters were arrested in the moment, but there were never hearings. Nobody was questioned about how these things were organized. No political official's feet were held to the fire over their encouragement of the violence, like Trump was over Jan 6th, despite many elected officials tweeting encouragement or blatantly ordering officers to stand down, not move into areas that eventually were burned down, etc.

Also, please define "a bunch of them". I, literally, posted a NYT link above showing who died when in relation to Jan 6th. 1 officer died the next day due to "natural causes", but his injuries were a "contributing factor". 1 officer is too many, but I wouldn't deem that "a bunch of them".

Have you ever watched any part of the 2020 riots? The gunshots fired at police? The moltovs thrown at them? Fireworks shot at them? Bricks hurled? And the list goes on. I guess attempted murder by an armed mob burning down your city doesn't get law enforcement officers as "highly motivated" as an unarmed mob throwing a hissy because their asshole didn't win.

[Troy]

There weren't any hearings because they were a series of riots kicked off by police shooting unarmed African Americans. It wasn't hard to figure out how they started, nor were they unusual in the history of America - there have been countless.

A mob storming the Capital building? Never happened before.

[Leisher]

There weren't any hearings because they were a series of riots kicked off by police shooting unarmed African Americans. It wasn't hard to figure out how they started, nor were they unusual in the history of America - there have been countless.

Let's focus on one BS narrative at a time shall we?

A mob storming the Capital building? Never happened before.

Pretty sure sitting U.S. Senators have never tweeted out encouragement of riots and violence before either, but here we are...

[GORDON]

In my mind, if you want to protest against the government and/or police, then you focus on government edifices and/or police.

You don't go out into your neighborhood in Portland and burn cars and storefronts.

[Troy]

Sure, as an individual that makes sense. But the mob is fickle. Been that way since Rome and way before.

Shit, Philadelphia Eagles fans will burn down half the city for winning OR losing a superbowl.

[GORDON]

That's why I've always been against mob rule. People are dumb as hell. I don't want them to ever be in charge of me, and I don't ever want to be dictated to by one. I want anyone susceptible to joining a mob to be removed from society, permanently.

But it wasn't an attempted insurrection.

[GORDON]

Also I believe the Pentagon was the only legit target on 9/11. Bin Laden had a beef against the military, and he hit an actual military target.

I disapprove of his method of attack, obviously. I hope that fucker suffered.

But if you're pissed at the government, protest at the government. Especially if the guards are going to step aside and literally hold the door for you.

[Leisher]

But the mob is fickle.

The cancel culture mob is fickle. A physically gathered mob is, as Gordon said, dumb as hell. FYI, this is why the founding fathers were smart enough to avoid creating a democracy in favor of a republic.

Honestly Troy, if you go back and read these posts you will see that we're not really on different sides of the issue here. Nobody is arguing the Jan 6th idiots or the morons from 2020 were justified in their violence or anything like that. Me, Gordon, and Cake are just saying the Jan 6th riot wasn't a "legit" coup attempt.

Especially if the guards are going to step aside and literally hold the door for you.

You know, I thought this was total bullshit, but earlier right wing Twitter showed me this, and...it's weird. I don't know what I'm seeing, but is it nothing?

Fun whackadoo conspiracy stuff: Combine this guy(s?) and the video we've seen from at least one of the protests that became a riot where a totally covered individual is vandalizing a building and actual protestors were pointing him out as not being with them. Not saying anything here because anyone could create good reasons for each, but...if one were attempting to divide people...

[Cakedaddy]

The man pulling them through could have been trying to avoid a situation where a blockage forms and people behind it keep pushing leading to injuries. He could have been trying to create the illusion of something bigger happening. We will never know his true intentions.

The cop that was crushed in that video. I get the sense that the people at the front of that mob saw what was happening and were like "Oh shit" and got word back, slowly, through the mob that they had to stop. Why else would the mob have stopped? If they wanted blood and to take over, he would have just been a casualty of that goal. The mob is all for being a mob, until someone gets hurt and they are like "Oh shit. Someone's gonna have to answer for this." and then it's like "I was just kidding!"

That's not an insurrection. It was a bunch of Trumptards Trumptarding.

[Troy]

This is just a never-ending circle of "This isn't how I would overthrow the government, so it doesn't count"

Well, the Trumptards are a bunch of morons, they did their best. Incompetence isn't a legal defense.

They had, and some still have, deluded themselves into believing large portions of the military and government were secretly on their side. Abducting people to Guantanamo, weird shit about body-doubles of Biden and Hillary, all kinds of outrageous shit. They thought they were playing their part. And are getting punished appropriately for attempting it.

[Cakedaddy]

Well, while a boss should never rest his hands on the shoulders of a female subordinate, she also shouldn't claim rape. This was such a minor event, but to scale it up to 'insurrection' seems a bit much.