Vaccinations

For stuff that is general.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

So yeah, there's currently a thing for parents not getting their kids vaccinated, and diseases like measles are making a comeback.

What I wonder is this:

If there is a kid in your neighborhood whose parents did not get vaccinated for whatever reasons, and they get measles, and then they pass measles to your kid who is yet too young to get the MMR vaccination, possibly casing death.... can you sue the dumb parents for it? Yeah you can sue for anything... I just wonder why we haven't seen this, yet.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Sure you could sue. As you say you can sue for anything. But I doubt you'd win; the jury is likely to have at least a couple of anti-vaccers on it.

Personally I am opposed to forced vaccinations. Sure it increases the danger for other children, but if the parents are dumb enough to be anti-vaccers then when their kid dies the odds are the average intelligence of the species will go up marginally.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

I dunno, I think there has to be a baseline for citizenship and residency, and "don't help bring back diseases through ignorance" should be one of them, right alongside, "you can't kill other peeps" and "Don't talk during the goddam movie" and "Get the fuck out of the fast lane." There are certainly much harsher restrictions of liberty than that they we already live with.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

Fascist.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Personally I am opposed to forced vaccinations.

Your health is yours to deal with. However, if you start sending your kid to places society funds, like public schools and universities, shit gets different. If my tax dollars pay to treat measles for kid X because your son played with him and didn't have his shots, shit gets different.

if the parents are dumb enough to be anti-vaccers then when their kid dies the odds are the average intelligence of the species will go up marginally.

The average intelligence being on the uptick will happen when the dumbass parents die off. The child dying off never gets to make an informed decision about jabbing a needle in his arm so he doesn't get sick.

"Get the fuck out of the fast lane."

OR GODDAMN DEATH. The driving rules in this country are batshit insane. If you can't handle traffic merging into your lane on the highway, you can't handle driving. Fuck off and hand in your license.
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TheCatt
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Post by TheCatt »

I would think you'd have a good cause for a civil suit in today's world. They are consciously rejecting scientific advice on best practices for health, exposing others. Knowingly creating the possibility that others are harmed is often suable.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

TheCatt wrote:I would think you'd have a good cause for a civil suit in today's world. They are consciously rejecting scientific advice on best practices for health, exposing others. Knowingly creating the possibility that others are harmed is often suable.

What if they're ... oh, I don't know, Christian scientists? Think any court will take on the sacred religious cow and say, "Your beliefs are idiotic, jump into this millennium?"




Edited By Malcolm on 1423020716
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Yep, too bad, there's a minimal set of things we require here in civilization.
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TPRJones
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Post by TPRJones »

However, if you start sending your kid to places society funds, like public schools and universities, shit gets different.

Agreed. But I'm also opposed to forced schooling as well, so it works.

The child dying off never gets to make an informed decision about jabbing a needle in his arm so he doesn't get sick.

Sure the kid didn't get to decide, but with two dumb parents (or one dumb parent and one weak parent) the kid is probably also dumb.




Edited By TPRJones on 1423020958
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

I have to say I'm in the "opposed to forced vaccinations camp" as well. I suspect the fears are overblown about the supposed problems with vaccinations, but who knows what they'll be saying 50 years from now? Plus if there really are any risks associated with them, what are the odds that the big pharms that make shit tons of money off of them will let one of those studies stand without 10 saying the opposite being funded.

To the original question, I don't see how they could successfully sue. Someone here (I forget who) is always pointing out how many die from the flu every year. If your kid gets the flu and dies from respiratory issues there are a LOT of people that refuse to get flu shots every year.
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Post by TPRJones »

Vince, 100% of the fear and hysteria around vaccines comes from a single study done in the 50s by a quack that didn't do a "study" so much as write an opinion piece composed of lies and deceit. He even confessed years later that he made the whole thing up.

Since then there have been many studies of vaccines all of which have found no links with autism. At this point the science around the lack of connection between vaccines and autism is about as firmly established as the idea that the earth may in fact orbit the sun.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

I suspect the fears are overblown about the supposed problems with vaccinations, but who knows what they'll be saying 50 years from now?

That statement can be made about any technology that isn't fully, 100% explainable.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

TPRJones wrote:Vince, 100% of the fear and hysteria around vaccines comes from a single study done in the 50s by a quack...

Actually not true that this is where all the fears come from. I agree that all the autism stuff is likely bunk. There seems to be something causing a spike in cases of autism over the last couple or three decades, but I don't think they can tie it to anything at this point.

I'm talking about all the other adverse reactions from vaccines that have been documented on a case by case basis. Reactions that include, but are not limited to paralysis, seizures, brain damage and death.




Edited By Vince on 1423082970
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm »

Uh ... they don't think there's a single thing causing autism. It's a state the brain gets into by one of multiple paths. The reason there's been a "spike" in autism in the recent past is that they've put more effort into recognizing and diagnosing it.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

Malcolm wrote:Uh ... they don't think there's a single thing causing autism. It's a state the brain gets into by one of multiple paths. The reason there's been a "spike" in autism in the recent past is that they've put more effort into recognizing and diagnosing it.

I agree that's a lot of it, but the rates have gone from something like 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 65. Now part of that is also the old "when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail", but I don't think those two things can account for all of it.

* Updating my numbers. Was measured at 1 in 2,500 in the 70's and is now 1 in 68.




Edited By Vince on 1423084203
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Post by TheCatt »

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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

I would ask if there has been a change in the definition of "autism" in that time frame.
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Vince
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Post by Vince »

I think we're missing the big picture on this news story anyway. The media is doing a great job of directing focus on the anti-vaccine crowd during this measles outbreak. It's not like un-vaccinated kids' bodies are spontaneously producing the virus. It's almost as if people had been entering our country without any sort of health screening or something.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

Yeah there's that, I assume it has been coming from Americans traveling overseas. Measles still happens a lot overseas, and it would be easy to bring back.
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GORDON
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Post by GORDON »

GORDON wrote:I would ask if there has been a change in the definition of "autism" in that time frame.
For example, is severe shyness, introspection, or just being a spergelord with no social skills considered autism, now? That wouldn't have been diagnosed 20 years ago when everyone wasn't a special snowflake.
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